EP #31 - The American Dream is Dead (Here’s What to Do Instead)

In this episode of the Financial Freedom Fighters Podcast, hosts Jacob Sandoval and Michael Magno debunk the outdated concept of the American Dream. They argue that traditional paths like working a corporate job, saving in a 401k, and hoping for a comfortable retirement no longer work in the current economic climate. Instead, they advocate for achieving financial freedom through alternative means such as real estate investing, starting side businesses, and building diversified portfolios. The hosts emphasize the importance of understanding your expenses, the 4 percent rule, and the power of passive income. They also provide actionable steps and recommended readings to help you get started on your journey to financial independence.

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Transcript

Nancy: 0:00

This is the Financial Freedom Fighters Podcast

Jacob: 0:13

Welcome everybody to the financial freedom fighters. Podcast back with another episode today, I'm your host, Jacob Sandoval, AKA cashflow saga. I'm just going to jump straight into it today, Mike, the American dream is a lie. The American dream is bullshit. Mike, the bill of goods that we were sold our entire life it's not attainable anymore. It's not achievable anymore. And it's not even what people should be focusing on. So I'm going to define what I mean by this, right? Because I think that this might upset some people. I think that this might make some people feel uncomfortable, but I want to explain myself. And. We are going to talk about the new way, the new dream, what we believe the new path should be, because we, we are positive you're on the financial freedom fighters podcast, but I got to jump on my soapbox a little bit, Mike. And so what do I mean by the, about the American dream? the American dream is. go to a fancy college, Pay some high tuition, get a fancy degree and get a job at a prestigious company, work your way up the corporate ladder, save in that 401k, buy the big house, buy the two big cars, maybe retire at around 65 and then you can enjoy your life. That's the American dream. That's what everyone's been doing. That's what my parents did. That's what your parents did, Mike. But I think that that is bullshit

Mike: 1:28

Yeah, it's definitely, uh, it's changed for sure. Right. Um, that's definitely not the way that you and I are going to do it. And that's not what we talk about on this pod every couple of weeks. It's what we were kind of fed. Right. Um, you know, I'm a little older than you, so. You know, I'm still that generation that was told to go to college. Um, I, you know, none of my parents even went to college, right. I grew up in a very middle to lower middle income class neighborhood, um, with working parents of immigrant parents and, you know, they worked their labor jobs, right. They, uh, my grandfather was a teamster, right. My father was in the AFL CIO for a long time My parents are just now retiring. And what's really frustrating about it too, is the fact that my parents are in their mid, you know, mid to late sixties now, and, you know, they're just not in, you know, they're just not in the greatest shape, right. Uh, when it, when it comes to health. When it comes to wealth and it's really frustrating because, you know, what's the life expectancy of, of, of the, of an American citizen, an average citizen, right? 77, 78, maybe. So that means you worked 50 years, right? I mean, my, I know my parents worked when they were little, when they were teenagers, you know, I got my first job at 14. So you're telling me I'm going to work 50, 55 years to enjoy 10. No, fuck that. That's what I have to say about that.

Jacob: 2:54

Yeah, absolutely. And that might've been the way that might've been the way, right. That, that might've worked, but the times are changing. for example, let's just take housing, right? Something that we talk about a lot here on the pod, Mike, back in our parents generation, a house maybe was two times your income, maybe three times your income, So if the income back then was, let's just call it. I don't know, 30 grand, You might be able to find a house, for 60, 70, 80, 90 grand. And that was attainable for people based on the average salary of the American back in that time today. Let's just take the median home price, for example, in the United States. The median home price I believe is, you know, above 400, 000, but the average salary. It's still in the 50 to 60, 000 range, So that multiple, how many times your salary it takes to buy a house has increased drastically the housing prices have outpaced inflation, making home affordability, making home ownership, a key staple of the American dream, so, so far out of reach. when, when my wife and I, before, before all of this real estate investing stuff, my wife and I, we were looking to buy a house. We were living in Pasadena at the time. We put in what we felt was a good offer on a 1. 25 million house. It was three beds, two baths, 1400 square feet in Pasadena. 1.25 million was what we offered, which was a hundred thousand dollars over asking. We were the lowest of 40 offers, the lowest of 40 to buy a starter home in a good neighborhood in Pasadena where we wanted to live. and that's in California, but this is happening nationwide. So if people can't afford to buy homes, if people don't have enough safer retirement, Mike, so the average retirement savings is$200,000 today. You can't, no one can retire on 200, 000. So you're telling me that I worked my whole life. Um, and all I want to do is buy a nice house, retire comfortably and enjoy the rest of my life, but I can't do that. The system has failed. Mike, the system has failed people. If they cannot do the things that they were promised And that's my biggest issue with it. you touched on this with your parents, but why do we think it's okay to delay all of the things that we want, all of the things we want to do, um, until we're 60, 70 years old, you can't ski the Swiss Alps and really enjoy it as much as you could when you're 65 versus when you're 45. So why do we have to wait for the life that we want? Just because people say that this is how it goes, right? Just because that's not the American dream. and the last thing that I'll kind of say is how much unhappiness in the world is caused by the fact that people are in these nine to five jobs that they just do not enjoy, Mike, How much unhappiness? I know that you worked a nine to five job and you were a restaurant manager and you know, that job was fine. But it wasn't the thing that you were meant to do, Mike. It wasn't that thing that you were uniquely positioned to excel at. And the same thing for me as an accountant, I was an accountant and it's not like I really love accounting. I wasn't uniquely put on this earth to be an accountant, but I was doing it because I needed that paycheck. I needed that stable nine to five job because that's what the American dream told me to do. Get that job at that big four accounting firm, become that restaurant manager, Mike, get that stable nine to five job, get that paycheck and be happy that you even have that. That's what the system told us to do. And I was so unhappy, Mike. And I know that you felt this too, when you were just on the hamster wheel of being working in the restaurant industry, you were just unhappy because we didn't feel that this is what we were supposed to do. And I know you, the listener, you probably feel this in your job too. Um, and so many people feel this. So. The American dream is locking us into careers that we're not even meant for, That we're not even meant for, because we have to align with the system. just be the cogs in the wheel. And so Mike and I think that this is bullshit. We think that this is a lie. And the reason why we started the financial freedom fighters. Podcast in the first place was to talk about the new way. So what is the new way? Mike, what can people do if they do not want to subscribe to the quote unquote American dream?

Mike: 6:51

Well, they can, uh, get into a lot of different things, right? Um, being an entrepreneur is one, right? Uh, starting your own business. Um, and it could be as simple as starting a side hustle, right? When you. Are working that nine to five, right? Maybe you need that stability for a while and you've always dreamt of doing whatever insert, you know, whatever that dream is that you want to do. It could be simply buying rental properties like a lot of people do, right? It's a great, great side hustle for people. I have this conversation with people all the time. You know, what would, if you really buckled down and you bought one rental property over the next 10 years, you know, And then you paid them off over the next 10 to 15 years. What would that do for you financially at retirement time? When you had 10, let's just say single, modest single family homes paid off or close to paid off in a market like Ohio or somewhere here in the Midwest, right? What would that look like for you? That portfolio in 20 years from now, it's probably worth two to three million dollars. And it's probably spitting off somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 to 20, 000 a month in gross income. Do you think your social security check is going to look like that in 20 years? Because I don't.

Jacob: 8:14

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so folks, what Mike is alluding to here. Is do not mistake your nine to five job for security because it's not security. We were seeing this every day. Now, Mike, um, I know so many people that have gotten laid off and then what, what are you, what are you going to do? Yeah. They'll collect unemployment for some time, but then what about after that? What if they can't find another job? This is the problem with relying on the system. This is the problem with the American dream is you're putting your. Financial future in the hands of third parties, these corporations. And what if you don't want to work at these places anymore? What if you can't work at these places anymore? What if you get laid off? Well, Mike and I are talking about is instead of subscribing to the American dream, instead of trying to find the perfect job, instead of trying to figure out the perfect career, what you need to prioritize is. Is achieving financial independence, financial freedom by any means necessary. And what is financial freedom? What is financial independence? Very simply the way that I defined it, the way that we define it here on the financial freedom fighters podcast is you have investment income that is being generated, that is greater than your living expenses. That's it. That's it. If you have rental properties, if you have a dividend paying stocks, if you have a side hustle that is generating income, if you have all of these things and you add up all of those things, and it is greater than your monthly expenses, then you have achieved financial independence. You have to prioritize that as soon as possible, achieve it by any means necessary. And look, there's nothing wrong with having a nine to five job. I still have a nine to five job. That's okay. And you're going to need to have a nine to five job. We'll talk about this a little bit more. You'll need to have a nine to five job. You have to take that nine to five job and you have to turn that into passive income. By investing in assets, stocks, real estate, crypto, investing in yourself, right? So you can start a business that's not tied to your employer. This is the way, This is the way, and this is all that we talk about on financial freedom fighters podcast. We focus a lot on real estate cause that is one of the most proven vehicles to achieve financial freedom. But I'm so passionate about this, Mike, I'm so passionate. And I think that everybody, even if you do not want to retire early, so to speak, Even if you're okay working until you're 60, that's fine. There is something that's very powerful to say that I do not need this job. I could get laid off today and I would be completely fine. If you're able to say that. Then you have true independence, you have true freedom, and then you can make very, very different choices in your life. And that's what we want for you. That's what I want for you. I have talked about this in previous episodes before, but I was making 250, 000 a year working in tech. I was burnt out. I no longer enjoyed that, but for the first 10 years of my career, that's what I prioritize. I prioritize getting salary increases, getting promotions, making sure that I was leveling up my skills because I knew that that income was going to be critical, but I took that income and I invested in stocks. I invested in real estate and I focused on that. So when it came time to the point that I was burned out, I could make that decision to leave. I could take a pay cut. I could take a risk in my career, which is what I did. I took my career in a completely different direction, but I'm so much more fulfilled now. I'm so much happier now. And I'm so confident that in the next one to two years or however long it takes, I'm going to be making more money than I was making in tech because I'm more aligned to what I'm doing. But I could do that because I invested in assets. I prioritize financial independence and that flexibility, that true Independence. That true freedom is what we want from you. Anything to kind of add there, Mike?

Mike: 12:18

Yeah, I think for people it's, it's such a different way of thinking. They really, really struggle to wrap their head around it. And I know I did. I did. I mean, I, I ended up, you know, because of the recession in 08, losing a job, ending up in the hospitality industry, always thinking it was going to be temporary. And I never, I never got outside my little bubble. And guess what? I woke up one day and it was eight years later and I was still doing that same mundane thing. And I truly never thought I would be on the path I'm on today. Never. I never did. I, you know, it was, it was to me at that point in my life, it was like a lost dream, you know, I'm, I'm not quite financially independent yet, but it changes your, it changes your thought process when you do your own thing, especially for me, I know you still have the nine to five, you know, when, when Diana was still working, right. In 2020, when COVID happened, you know, and she had gotten licensed by then, but she was still working a full time job when her job, she was able to go back to her job. She was like, what do you want me to do? And I was able to confidently say, no, you're like, you don't have to go back. Right. Like you don't have to go back. We've built a business that. You know, provides for us and enables us to not, you know, you know, be a slave to someone else. So, you know, that's where it's, you know, for people it's, yeah, sure. It's certainly risky, right? I mean, there's, it's not without risk, but I, I, I tell people all the time, it's, it's truly the best decision we've made. Um, just because of what it, what it has afforded us to be able to do.

Jacob: 14:02

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, so that's what we want, folks. We, we want you to be able to say, look, work for me is a choice work for me is optional. And that's an incredibly powerful thing, but not enough people are actually taking the steps to make this happen. And here's the kicker too, Mike. If you're somebody that is, let's say you're 21 listening to this right now, or even younger, you can do this so much faster than Mike and I, you can do this so much faster than Mike and I, I'm, I'm jealous if you're 21 years old and you're thinking about this stuff, because you're going to be financially free, probably by the time before you're 30. You're going to be financially free. And that is incredibly powerful. Imagine how, how many years of your life you could have if you achieved that financial freedom much, much sooner, and you could check out of the rat race. Much, much sooner, That is incredibly powerful. And so whether or not you like you're okay with your nine to five job, that's kind of besides the point, Cause who doesn't want the independence? Who doesn't want the ability to say, look, I'm just working because I want to, because this is the work that I want to do, but you have to take the steps. You have to make the moves to make this a reality because it is not easy. It is not incredibly easy to achieve. If it was, everyone would be financially free. But that's why you're listening to the financial freedom fighters podcast. So Mike, let's get tactical here. Right. I really pride myself. Um, and we pride ourself on being tactical. So what is step number one, Mike, to figuring out how to achieve financial freedom?

Mike: 15:30

Got to figure out how much it's going to cost you.

Jacob: 15:33

Exactly.

Mike: 15:34

you gotta, you gotta take those expenses. You got to bust out your bank statements and your credit card statements and your debit statements. And you got to figure out what is it? What's my number, right? What's what we in, in our circles, right? We call it the FU number, right? Um, what's that, what's that FU number. So that's the first thing you got to start with is what, what's it going to cost me to become financially independent?

Jacob: 15:56

To put a finer point on it, I I'm, I'm shocked at how many people don't even know how much they're spending on a monthly basis, Mike, right? You might not, you might know what you're spending on rent and maybe you, you know, know you're paying for Netflix and things like that, but what is your total burn rate? Every single month and every single year, right? Are you spending 5, 000 a month, 6, 000 a month, 15, 000 a month, 25, 000 a month. What are you spending every single month? Because that is step number one. If you don't know how much you're spending, you're never going to be financially free period. That's it. And that's why most people are never going to be financially free because they just don't even know how much they need their investments to generate. So let's get even more specific, Mike. In the financial freedom community. There's something that's known as the 4 percent rule. So what is the 4 percent rule? The 4 percent rule was developed in the 1990s by financial planner, Bill Benjamin that said, how much can retirees withdraw from their stock and bond portfolios without running out of money? So very simple. It goes like this. If let's say you have a million dollar. Stock portfolio. If you withdraw 4 percent from that portfolio every single year, you won't run out of money. So 4 percent of 1 million is 40, 000. So you can live on 40, 000 a year off a 1 million portfolio and not run out of money. So if your number. Is 40, 000 a year, which, you know, might work for some people in certain countries, if you are, um, or if you're single living in the United States and the low cost of living market, that might work. Right. So 1 million would be your F you number, according to the 4 percent rule. Another way to do this is you just take your annual expenses. And you multiply it by 25. it's the inverse of the 4 percent rule, right? Just take your annual expenses, multiply by 25. So figure out what that is. Figure out what your F you number is. And Hey, here's the good thing too. The 4 percent rule is only assuming that you invest in stocks, but what if you're investing in rental properties, for example, what if your rental properties actually generating much better than a 4 percent cash on cash return, then you're actually getting to a point where you need less money than the 4 percent rule says, because you're blending in some rental properties that have some cashflow. What if you have a rental property portfolio that's generating 5, 000 a month, and then your stock portfolio really doesn't have to work as hard because you have the real estate portfolio as well. So. All of this to say is it all starts with understanding your expenses. So take some time, download the bank statements, like Mike said, and figure out what your burn rate is. Take that monthly number, multiply it by 12 to get the annual number, multiply it by 25 to get your FU number, and then start there. For me, Mike, it was such a big unlock to just know, okay. I have a number, right? And even though I'm not at that number yet, I know what I'm shooting for. And I'm building a plan and working backwards from there to know how I'm going to get to that number. And so start there, ladies and gentlemen, that is what you need to do. Mike. So step two, we kind of talked about this already, right? So once you have your FU number, once you understand your monthly expenses, you really need to start focusing on those passive income stream. So Mike, let's kind of run through, what are all the different things that people can invest in?

Mike: 19:03

you know, real estate's a very large piece of both of our portfolios. And, you know, that's where a lot of people found us is through real estate. Uh, but we are talking about financial independence and, and that's why we're the financial freedom fighters, not, you know, completely real estate centered. Um, you know, there are a ton of dividend stocks, Uh, bonds, um, ETFs that you can invest in. Um, you know, crypto, you know, um, it's, it's not been my bag, but, you know, crypto is another one, you know, there's a lot of people investing in the, in the cryptocurrencies, the Bitcoins, Ethereum, et cetera. Um, so, I mean, those are just a few things, obviously. If you're working at nine to five and you have a 401k, obviously, you know, our advice would be maximize that, maximize what you can put in your 401k every single month, every single paycheck. Um, especially if there's a matching piece from your employer, you know, and then, you know, keeping your expenses low, right? I mean, that's the other thing, um, whether you're starting out young in life and you want a house hack, right? You want to buy that duplex and you want to live in one side and run out the other, because. We all know in this country, housing is your most expensive is typically your most expensive, um, you know, thing on your balance in your personal balance sheet, then that's kind of where you, you want to start.

Jacob: 20:23

look folks, Mike talks about the 401k. if all you, if your entire financial freedom is your 401k. You're not doing enough, You're not doing enough. And I personally actually think that, you know, I, I view the 401k as kind of part of the system. If you have a match component, absolutely take advantage of the match. That's free money, You'd be silly not to take advantage of the match, but. You have to keep in mind as well, the 401k is locked up until you're 59 and a half. You can't touch that money. So it doesn't help you in the world of early retirement, but that is one part for sure. But Mike talked about it, right? Invest in rental properties, invest in stocks, invest, invest in crypto underpinning all of this is you need to build up a portfolio that is generating one cashflow, but also that is Generating appreciation and increase in value because every single day, because of inflation, because the government is printing and printing more and more money or dollars, A hundred dollar bill. That money is becoming less and less valuable every single day. So if you are just holding your money in cash, even if you're holding money in a high yield savings account, that is becoming less and less valuable every single day. So you are becoming poorer. If you were just holding fiat currency, if you were just holding dollars, if you were not investing that money in rental properties, in stocks, in crypto, if you're not investing that money, you are stealing from your financial future if you're not becoming an investor. And so that is why Mike and I urge you to, to stack assets, to build a portfolio that's going to generate both cashflow, that's going to generate appreciation, because that is what is going to create value. Give you options. That is what is going to help you achieve financial freedom. Right now I'm in the process of selling one of my rental properties. It's, it's the first rental property ever bought. It's in Portland, Oregon, and I have options of what I want to do with that money, right? We've talked about this in kind of previous, previous episodes. Maybe I can do private lending, right? Maybe help Mike with one of his flip projects. Maybe I can go buy some crypto or maybe I can go buy another rental property, but it's just transferring. My equity, right? My ownership, it's moving things around in my portfolio that I have, but I have options because I have assets. So you need to give yourself options. You need to stack up those assets. And the most powerful thing you can do is give yourself the time, the time for your rents to increase in your rental properties, the time for your stocks to compound and appreciate the time for crypto to go up and down and up and down. But mostly it kind of like ends up in a much higher place, but you need to give yourself that time. if you're younger in your career, you might not have a lot of money, but you have a lot of time. So use what you have to your advantage and get started early and invest early. but the thing that's going to be the highest leverage is if you can start a side business, if you can start, if you can become an entrepreneur and you can figure out how to monetize what you're really good at, how to monetize your passion, That is going to be far in a way, the much better return than any of these investments, there's no amount of investing, Mike, that is going to be able to replace the amount of income that you're generating from your real estate agent business, because you figured out how to set up that business. So at the end of the day, you have to also explore this because Mike no longer needs the money. To ever work for anyone else ever again. He no longer needs that because he found out what he's good at. He set up his own business and it doesn't matter what year it is. It doesn't matter what's going on. Mike knows how to make money. And so you have to figure out what that is for yourself. And that also is a part of the financial freedom equation. Because one thing too, Mike, that we don't talk about is if you are able to invest in rental properties, invest in stocks, invest in crypto, and then let's say you quit your W2 job, you achieve what most people will never hope to achieve, but then you have nothing to retire to Mike. That can also be a recipe for disaster. There's a lot of people, um, articles of people that retire that actually, are more depressed because the job gave them meaning. It gave them structure. It gave them something to do. So that's another piece of this as well. Even if your side business is not widely, wildly profitable, if it's something you're passionate about, then that's going to help you in the world of early retirement as well. So Mike, we've kind of said a lot, but I'm going to land the plane here. And just kind of urge you, the listener, or if you're watching this on YouTube, do not subscribe to the traditional American dream. It's like the matrix, Mike, right? You take the red pill, you take the blue pill, you take the blue pill, nothing in your life changes. You clock in, you clock out, you work for another 40 years, you cash in your 401k. Hopefully you have enough money, and then maybe you enjoy your retirement. And you know, we wish you nothing but the best. That's fine. Or you take the red pill, Mike. You keep listening to the financial freedom fighters podcast. You buy some rental properties, you buy some stocks, maybe invest in a little bit of crypto. This is not financial advice. And then you retire 10 years earlier, 15 years earlier, depends on where you're starting at your journey. But how valuable. Is getting those years of your life back to me. I've said this a lot of times I'm retiring before I'm 40 years old. I'm 33 years old right now. So I have six, seven years to hit my financial freedom goals. And I'm ahead of schedule right now. You know, I I'll be ecstatic if I can achieve that much earlier than 40. But that's what I'm saying right now, 40 years old, I'm going to be work optional. Does that mean I'm going to quit my job at 40? No, that's not what I'm saying. Okay. But at that time I have the freedom to say, look, I'm just going to work because I want to work and that's, and that's it. Right. And that, and that is what I'm striving for. That is what I want everyone to have. Um, because it's just a different life. Right. And, and I can't see the world any differently now that I understand this. Mike, I'm sure you feel the same way, but what are any closing thoughts, remarks for the listener, Mike, um, on this topic?

Mike: 26:06

Yeah, I, I think for people, it's just that it's that, that mind, that mindset shift, right? They have to, they have to get it in their mind that. No one's coming to save them. Social security is not going to save you. Like you said, your 401k, probably not going to save you. And I learned this the hard way, right? After losing a job, your employer doesn't care. They don't care. They will throw you out just as, just as fast as they brought you in. If they don't need you anymore, and it's just, I don't know, it was, it was the, it was an epiphany that I had, you know, and I'm, and I'm just thankful I found it when I did, because otherwise I'd still be doing the same thing and it would be miserable. And I would, you know, wouldn't be having any fun. I wouldn't be hosting this podcast with you. And, um, it's one of those things like, For people, you just educate yourselves, read books. Um, I mean there's plenty of great easy reads out there. Um, you know, you can start with Dave Ramsey, right? Like we, we might not agree with Dave Ramsey when you get past the baby steps, right? Like you and I don't subscribe to the same way that Dave invests or things like that. You know, Dave Ramsey changed my life. He changed my life when I was in a negative net worth, right? Uh, six figure negative net worth, you know, he, he, he changed my life. And so for people out there that we talked about, right, we want to be tactical. You got to figure out what those, what those budget, you know, a budget, like just starting with a basic budget. So you can start with, you know, with the Ramsey stuff. Uh, another very powerful book that I, it's a super easy read. Um. The psychology of money by Morgan Housel is another great book that, you know, I turn, I turn young people onto all the time. Matter of fact, gentleman who cuts my hair. He's been cutting my hair for like literally 20 years. Uh, he started his own, he started his own shop two years ago. Two years ago that, that guy started his own shop and he's going through the same things I'm going through as a small business owner. And he's got a young, he's got a young woman that works for him there at the front desk. And we got into a conversation about this one day and, and she overheard us and she asked me some questions and I, I literally brought her a copy of that book. You know, I said, here, start with this book. And I mean, it'll just, it'll retrain your mind. It'll reframe your, your, your thought processes. And you know, when, when people start taking, you know, taking those actions, it's going to help them down the road.

Jacob: 28:31

Absolutely. I love that. I love that story. so those books are a total money makeover by Dave Ramsey. If you're someone that's really just trying to get out of debt, trying to figure out their budget situation, that's a great read. Uh, the psychology of money, right? A lot of people just don't think about money in the right way and that's not anyone's fault. But you have to have the right psychology around money. So the psychology of money, uh, by Morgan Housel, and then the last one I'll throw in there, the classic, of course, um, it is the red pill for most people, rich dad, poor dad by Robert Kiyosaki. Um, definitely want to toss that one in there because for me, that was just such a big aha moment, really opened my eyes into the larger game that people are playing here that most people are not privy to. That's it folks for today. hope you got a lot of value out of this. It is 2025. Let's get after it. Let's make financial freedom a priority. Let's. Let's break free, right? Let's do it all together. Um, tap into the financial freedom fighters podcast. We're going to be releasing podcast episodes every two weeks. So stick with us on our journey. Um, and we'll do everything we can to help you achieve financial freedom. My name is Jacob Sandoval. You can find me at cashflow saga on all socials. He is Michael Magno. You can find him on all socials at realtor, Michael Magno. We are the financial freedom fighters podcast. We will see you in the next episode. Peace.

Mike: 29:50

See ya.

Nancy: 29:50

Goodbye