EP #23 - Why Turnkey Rental Properties are a Scam

In this episode of the Financial Freedom Fighters Podcast, hosts Jacob Sandoval and Michael Magno dive deep into the concept of turnkey rental companies. They discuss the potential pitfalls and hidden challenges of these "turnkey" investments, especially for new real estate investors. Jacob and Michael emphasize the importance of doing your own due diligence, working with trustworthy, investor-friendly agents, and understanding how to effectively underwrite deals to avoid costly mistakes.

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Transcript

Nancy: 0:00

This is the Financial Freedom Fighters Podcast

Jacob: 0:13

Welcome everybody to the financial freedom fighters podcast. I'm your host, Jacob Sandoval, AKA cash flow saga. I have with me, my co hosts, he is the best Realtor in Cleveland at Realtor, Michael Magno. How's it going, Mike? How you doing? It's been too long.

Mike: 0:32

Hey Jacob, uh, no, things are good. Things are good. You know, uh, business is still, uh, still kicking. You know, the craziness has not, has not stopped, at least in our market. I know there's a lot of markets around the country that are a little bit down right now. Some of the bigger ones, you know, some of the ones that had the bigger spikes than we had, but things are, things are plugging right along for us. So.

Jacob: 0:50

I've been seeing, and it's nice, but I've been seeing Cleveland as a market. Pop up more and more at the top of these different lists, like whatever list you want to call it, like rent growth lists, um, just like overall strong markets, um, because. You're seeing a lot of these markets, right? A lot of the popular Sunbelt markets, they're seeing a lot of supply growth, right? Mike, a lot of inventory growth in a lot of these kinds of Sunbelt markets, which is obviously hurting, both on the rental side and both on just like side of it, but in Cleveland in particular, in a lot of these places in the Midwest, you're just not getting the inventory growth and you're not getting the supply growth that's needed, which is a double edged sword. Obviously, like we need inventory in Cleveland and in the Midwest, but from an investor standpoint, if you are an owner operator in Cleveland, that is, you know, a tailwind for your business because. fewer supply, less supply means higher prices, both on the value of the real estate on the rental side. But you're probably seeing a lot of that stuff too, Mike, um, in terms of Cleveland, like floating to the top, a lot of these lists.

Mike: 1:54

yeah. I mean, I joke, you know, Cleveland's long from a, a secret anymore. And, uh, you know, the biggest thing, uh, you find that you end up finding us on almost every list, right? Great place to invest places where you're going to see appreciation, which is, you know, all well and good, but it just, it makes it more, it makes it a lot more difficult to operate here. You know, you have to look at a lot more deals. Um, and you know, inventory is still at, you know, what's considered to be like all time lows and that's on the retail side as well as the, as the investor multi, you know, small multifamily side too. So, yeah, I mean it's, and, and stuff, um, you know, I'll continue to say it till I, until I can't, but if you price your property appropriately for the market, for the location, you will get, you will get multiple offers. So, you know, even, uh, even on the retail side, it's still banana. It's still bananas. Um, I did my first open house in like four years, the other, uh, a few weeks ago. I posted a reel about it on my socials. We had 150 people through an open house. Yeah. When we went, when we went active on the MLS in that community, we were the only, we were the only active listing. And it's not like it was in the middle of nowhere, you know, people think, Oh, maybe it was in the sticks or something. No, it was, it was in a suburb of Akron, so it wasn't in the sticks or anything like that. So that's what's. I mean, it's just tough. You know, I, you, you feel bad, we had 11 offers on that property, right? 11 written offers. I can't, I, I lost track of the agents that called me and said, Hey, do you have offers? Yeah. Are they over asking? Yeah. Then they'd say, well, my client, this was already at the top of their budget. And then they're like, I'm not even, we would, we would have written, but we're not even going to bother. I probably had six or seven of those calls to where agents, you know, reached out and just knew that their, their clients couldn't compete. So, you know, it's frustrating, it's frustrating for everybody. Right. Cause I represent a lot of buyers too, you know, so it's just not, this awesome thing when you're the listing agent

Jacob: 3:50

Yeah. So I think kind of, I think kind of the main takeaway for you, the listener is. Just depending on what market you're in, right. Or what market you're looking for your investment property, you should be very aware of the competition and the supply and demand dynamics, right? You know, you could be in a market where you very much is a buyer's market, right? Because for whatever reason, the amount of inventory and what's going on in that local market, or you can be in a market that's still highly, highly competitive, like Cleveland, right? So just be aware. Have those conversations with your agent and make sure that you're operating accordingly. But I think this is a good transition, Mike, because the episode for today. We are going to be talking, talking about a topic that I think is, you know, a warning, I want to say a warning to kind of the newbie investor, the person that is trying to jump into the real estate market and they're getting their feet wet, they're trying to get into their first rental property, right? That's the majority of the people that are listening to this podcast. You listening to this podcast right now, you're probably trying to get into your first rental property, right? and there is the allure, Mike. Of these companies called turn key companies. and the reason, uh, why we kind of bring this up in tandem with Cleveland, Mike is because a lot of these turnkey companies, they are positioned in markets that are quote unquote cashflow markets, right? Cleveland, Detroit, the Midwest. So if you are a listener of this podcast and you're interested in Cleveland or the Midwest, you have probably come across these turnkey companies and. Mike has a lot of opinions on these Turkey companies. And so we're going to, I'm going to pass the mic over to him, but in essence, I'll just give a very simple kind of like explanation and definition of what a Turkey company is. Essentially, they will buy a property, they'll renovate it. They'll fix it up for you. So do all the rehab. they will then sell it to you, the buyer, and it's all fixed up and they'll sell it to you typically with a tenant already placed. And they will be the property manager. So turn key in that you as the buyer, you just cut the check, right? And it's all done for you. All the work is done for you and they'll show you that it's a great return. They'll do all the underwriting. They'll say it's going to cashflow this much. And it's just the easy button. It's just the easy button. And I can say this, you know, Being a more seasoned investor now, but when I first started out, you'll see the advertise on bigger pockets. They're kind of all over the place and they have really great marketing. And for me, when I was a beginning investor several years ago, I was like, you know what, why don't I just try this? And a lot of people have gone this route of a turnkey provider, but as we'll get into in this episode today, a lot of these properties that these turnkey providers are pushing are not all they are cracked up to be. So we're going to dive into all of that, Mike, but why don't you kick us off? where do we start, Mike? Where do we start with, uh, with these turnkey companies?

Mike: 6:33

on the surface, right? The premise of the turnkey, um, it seems like it's a really, really great option for people. And it might, it might very well be in some markets. they typically operate in your lower priced markets that are typically known for cashflow, right? Cause you have higher renter price, you know, rent to price ratios. Um, and they're coming into areas where there, there, there were Very depressed prices. So like you mentioned Detroit, Cleveland, Memphis is another one. Memphis, Tennessee is one is one where there's a very large operator, you know, and it seems really great on the surface. Um, but if you dive deeper into those deals that you get with those guys is oftentimes they're targeting some pretty rough areas. And that's the thing that I've seen people, at least in, in my market in Cleveland and Akron, I've seen them get burned on is because of location. They end up having evictions, high turnover, more costs associated with it. And it doesn't really end up being turnkey at all. And the numbers that they're ultimately getting. you know, fed are really not that great, right? Like I'm seeing, I'm seeing deals on these websites at 6 percent return, 8 percent return. Like, I don't know, like I get the, you're hitting that easy button so to speak. And, and people will look at it, go, well, you know, yeah, I can get 8 percent in the stock market, but an 8 percent return in real estate, so better. It gives me tax advantages, yada, yada, yada. A lot of people don't like stock market because of the volatility or they don't understand it. And they'll stay away from that and they'll go into the hard assets of of real estate. And the thing that I've seen in our market, because I've had people reach out to me after buying from a turnkey operator, is they buy properties that just aren't worth what they paid for it. that's the, that's, that's the biggest thing.

Jacob: 8:23

Yeah. So, I mean, there's so many important points to hit on here because I just feel one, if you were looking for the easy button, rental property investing is not for you, it's not for you. It's not easy and you shouldn't expect it to be easy. Does it need to be the most difficult thing in the world? No, but if it was easy, everyone would do it. And everyone would be a millionaire. With a bunch of rental properties. That's just not how this works, right? If you're looking for the easy button, invest in index funds, right? Put some money to the S and P 500 every single month. If you want to get real estate exposure, invest in REITs or, you know, passive syndications or whatever, but don't buy a rental property thinking that it's going to be easy. So the whole concept of the easy button is a marketing thing. You know, they want to make it sound like it's an easy button, these turnkey companies, and it's just not. So that's red flag. Number one, red flag. Number two is you as the investor, you have to ask yourselves, how are these turnkey companies making money? How are they making money? If they're offering you these amazing deals that are like high cashflow right off the bat, and it's like a win win for everyone. How are they making money? How are they making money? And so that's where you have to, your spidey senses have to go up a little bit. And, and, and Mike, you can dive into this a little bit more, but they're in areas that aren't that great. And legitimately the thing that I was like shocked by was I was digging into this a little bit more. And when I. When I looked at the valuation that they gave for one of their turnkey properties, and then I just compared it to what it said. And I know Zillow is not the most accurate, right? Like there's a whole problems with like the Zillow estimate, but if you just looked at it. Just compare that basic premise of it. The Zillow estimate was so much lower than what the turnkey padded priced at. But Mike, I mean, you, you know, the business really well. So like, how are these turnkey companies making money?

Mike: 10:10

they're making money because they're doing, uh, they're doing the bare minimum. Right? Um, when I counsel, when people contact us and our team and say, Hey, we want to invest in Cleveland. I want to buy turnkey rental. I go through this whole thing with them about what turnkey really means, right? Because You can go open the MLS and put it, you know, you can open up Zillow or Redfin and type in keywords turnkey, right? And you'll get 15 or 20 things that'll pop up in your search that the agent put turnkey in there somewhere. And that person's definition of turnkey might be a lot different than someone else's definition of turnkey. And that's where you get these wild variances with people is because what did they actually do and that's how they're making their money, right? Like they're making their money because they're flipping, they're basically flipping a house, right? They're flipping a house. They're working on a profit margin and they're buying, you know, They're buying very, very cheaply, right? Cause they're these big marketing machines. So they get the people that want to sell them the worst houses in some of the worst areas. And then they go in and, you know, they lipstick it. They might replace a, they might replace a furnace. Um, you know, I've seen them where, you know, cause the roof isn't leaking, they don't touch it, but yet that roof might be 20 years old or 25, you know, and it's going to need to be replaced eventually. So that's a big, that's a big thing. I, I try to tell people is like, to me turnkey means that everything in terms of your cap X would have at least half of its life left, right? At least half, right? So the furnace shouldn't be more than 10 to 12, maybe 15 years old. Um, you know, your roof should be last 10 years, right? Like those are, those are the big huge ticket items in our market roof, Windows, HVAC, right? HVAC's, one of the things I, I almost always do in, in my rehabs, even if it's only, you know, if it's more than like 15 years old, I'm replacing it, you know, and there's a lot of flippers out there that won't, oh, it works. So why am I gonna, why am I gonna f with it? And I don't know to me that just rings. It just doesn't ring well. Um, and then a lot of flippers too, they're not agents, right? So they don't have to put their name on it or I have to actually put my name on it.

Jacob: 12:28

what I want to emphasize is. The turnkey providers, they're, they're making their money because they're doing all of the work for you. Right? So they are finding the property, they're renovating it, they're rehabbing it. They're placing the tenment. They're also typically the property management company. And while that fully integrated kind of end to end solution sounds great for you, the investor. There's just so many things wrong with it. Like Mike said, they're going to take a lot of shortcuts on the rehab because they have a profit margin that they're trying to hold to. Right. They can't guarantee that they're going to find the best deals in the best neighborhoods, right? Because they're operating on a kind of volume based business where they need to get enough deals done enough sales, enough transactions. So they can't be the most picky about, Hey, this is the best location. if they're doing all that work, you as the investor, you can't expect that amazing of a deal. Right. So at the end of the day, I think that's where you as an investor, if you are going to go this route, which Mike and I, you know, we don't recommend it, but if you are going to go this route, you also have to temper your expectations. You have to say, okay, if somebody's doing all the work for me, I can't expect this deal to be like a double digit cash on cash. You just can't expect that. because someone is doing all the work for you. Part of what makes real estate. An attractive investment vehicle is there are still a lot of market inefficiencies, right? In the stock market, there's arguably not no inefficiency in the stock market. If you hear something about a stock like Nvidia or Tesla or whatever, whatever, everyone's heard it. It's already priced in. There is no secrets unless you have these crazy trading algorithms that are operating on fractions of a fractions of a cent faster than everyone else's algorithms. Like there's no true advantage in the stock market anymore because information is so widely available in real estate. That's just not true. That's just not true. It's like real estate is literally built on market inefficiency because you might being local to the market, you're just going to know things that people don't know. And then you, you, you take advantage of that and you help your clients take advantage of that. And that's just how the real estate market goes. So. That is what makes real estate attractive as an investment vehicle. But if you're giving all that advantage up by saying, Hey, I'm just going to take a turnkey company, I'm going to hit the easy button, then you're going to get a subpar investment. That's just what you have to understand. You're going to say something like.

Mike: 14:40

The other thing I wanted to throw in there too, is right. Like who, you know, when you, when you pick up the phone and call, you know, I'm not going to name names, but when you call one of these large national turnkey providers, Where's the, you know, where, where's your protections, right? Like you don't have an agent, they don't list these things on the MLS, right? Like they don't hire an agent. They don't, um, you know, they don't allow me to represent you as an agent, right? Looking out for your best interests. Um, you just have to take everything they tell you to be gospel

Jacob: 15:08

and they don't actually like, they, they do the inspection sometimes for you

Mike: 15:12

right. They provide it to you

Jacob: 15:14

Yeah. They're like, Hey, we already did the inspection report that no red flags there, no red flags there. They're like, oh, you don't need a third party inspector to come through here. We already did

Mike: 15:22

where we don't want, we don't, we don't want to disrupt the tenant, you know, Blah, blah, blah. It's like, come on. What are you hiding? What are you hiding? are we going to find that fire damage that you hid in the, in the attic? Or are we going to find a, you know, a poorly patched roof in the back of the house somewhere where you can't see it in the pictures? Or, you know, who knows? Who knows? Who knows? I,

Jacob: 15:42

And, that, and that's where I get pissed off, Mike. Is that like, look, there are a lot of investors like, and, and let's be clear, these turnkey companies, they do make money. It does work. Because not everyone listens to the financial freedom fighters podcast, right? Not everybody knows, uh, to listen to Mike and Jacob, uh, and not everyone has us to in their corner to tell them not to do these things. And the marketing is great. The solution, if it was a true solution, Mike would be great. Right. Would be great. And, you know, I know you've even kicked around the idea of actually starting a. Legitimate kind of turnkey solution, but, but at the end of the day, the problem is, is that it's really hard to, to, to actually operate that business model and the incentives are not fully, fully aligned there. They're just not. And my problem with it is it borderlines. Just dishonesty in what you're telling the investor, very simply, I know how to underwrite deals and that's one of the skills that you should learn as an investor right away, learn how to underwrite deals, you know, and find an agent that knows how to underwrite deals too. And when I start running. My deal analysis on these deals that these turnkey providers have, they just don't match up, right. Or they're not even close, not even close. They're saying something that's going to have like a 10 percent cash on cash return. I'm seeing this thing, negative cash flows. And so to me, you know, that that's just where I get really pissed off. And then. And then not them, not being up front about the class of the neighborhood, right? They're telling you this is like a B class neighborhood and it's really a D class neighborhood. Like that's just like borderline dishonesty. And where I hear the horror stories are they just went through this whole process. They turnkey provider made it real easy. They get it one, the turnkey provider sucks as a property manager, the tenant that they placed was a terrible tenant. And then they have all these problems right out the gate. As soon as what, as soon as you buy the property and the funds are wired and, and then all these problems start to manifest. Right. And so I think what we're trying to stress with the episode today is that. As an investor, right? There are so many ways to make mistakes in real estate investing. And you're going to make those mistakes. You know, Mike and I have a whole episode on all the common mistakes that investors make, and you're going to make those mistakes. That's fine. You just, there are no shortcuts in this game. There are no shortcuts in this game. And you should be very skeptical of anything that appears to be a shortcut. And you don't want to be. You know, one of these cautionary tales, and I'll be fair, there are, there are probably, you know, a decent amount of success stories with turnkey companies as well. Like there probably are deals that aren't, that aren't the worst, that aren't the worst that the deals actually said what they, they are, they're going to be. And in real estate is a very forgiving asset class in the longterm in the longterm. If you hold it long enough and you have people paying the rent, You know, real estate is a forgiving asset class in the longterm. But what, what Mike and I are trying to stress to you today is that. You need to arm yourself with the knowledge to say, to snuff out the bullshit versus the real, right? And that's what we want to hammer home today. Mike is that we, you, you need to know how to snuff out bad deals, whether that's from a turnkey provider or whether that's from a aid, an unscrupulous agent, Mike, that's just trying to get you any deal, right? You got it. You also got to be able, equally able to snuff out bad deals, wherever they come from, wherever the source.

Mike: 18:53

no, that's a great point because you know, a lot of agents out there, they don't know when their next meal is coming, so to speak. Right. Maybe, maybe they're a new agent. Maybe they're an agent who's struggling you know, this is a really tough real estate environment to be an agent in right now. It has been for several years and you know, maybe they're just trying to push you into something because they think it's. You know, they need a paycheck. You know what I mean? So that's the other the other challenge. Um, you know, I always emphasize to people like I'm not chasing the paychecks. So I'm going to tell you, bring, bring me your, bring me the property. I'm going to, I'm going to poke holes all through it. So.

Jacob: 19:42

Yeah, absolutely. And so we are solutions oriented here at the financial freedom fighters podcast. So while we're saying don't invest in these turnkey companies, we also want to kind of provide you a solution. And I mean, what I've been doing my entire investing career is buying turnkey properties, but that are just sitting on the market. You know, that's what you need to do. You need to find an investor friendly agent like Mike. That is going to be able to pick out these turnkey properties that are just sitting on the market. Don't give that margin away to these turnkey companies, do the work with your agent to find and spot the right deals, because all the deals we've bought and have been pretty turnkey. And, you know, my definition of turnkey is that there's minimal work. That needs to be done to get the properties rent ready on the market, getting market rate rent. You know, you're going to have to put in a little bit of money anytime you're trying to get something rent ready, but nothing that's going to be an excessive rehab and all the properties we bought have pretty much been that. And that is what you need to find. And it's, it's intimidating in a sense, but it's not that intimidating when you have like the partnership of investor friendly agent. So that's the work of being the investor. You have to find the deals, you have to do the underwriting, you have to pick the market, you have to pick the neighborhood and you have to look and offer on a lot of deals. That's just the work of being an investor. You can't, you can't skip that step, what else do you want to say about that, Mike? Because it's entirely possible, right? We've been doing this for years. You, you help hundreds of clients to do this.

Mike: 21:10

it's a, it's a multifaceted, right? Like, I mean, I could open up the MLS right now and probably go find something. You know, um, in 20 minutes, that would be a pretty decent deal. You know, it might not be a home run, but it'll be a good deal. but also too, like I'm constantly poking holes and stuff and I'll tell people straight up, like, no, that's not a great deal or this is what's wrong with it. A, you know, a, B and C. Um, also too, you have to trust us too. And the trust gets built up over time. Um, but when I say, Hey, like, this is a good deal. You can't mess around. You can't mess around. you can't try to go in and, you know, play it like loosey goosey and, and want to go in five, five or 10 percent below list price. If it's priced appropriately, I'm going to tell you, and if you want to get the property, you're going to have to be aggressive and you're going to have to act quickly. Um, and you know, move on, you know, you, you will write, I tell people all the time, like, you're just, you're going to write a lot of offers,

Jacob: 22:02

so this is the choice for you, the investor, right? This is the choice that is kind of in front of you, right? You're really going to take the easy button and you should expect the returns that are commensurate with hitting the easy button, or you're going to roll up your sleeves, you're going to find investor friendly agent. That you trust that knows what they're talking about. That's going to poke holes in your deals and that's going to help you find the right deals and you're going to do the work and you're going to be ready to write those offers. I think that is one of the things that I had to get over, you know, as a beginning investor, initially, right. You, you get so skittish, Mike, you get skittish. It's a big, it's a big investment. You're not really sure and confident in your skills as an investor. And you just, you just get skittish. And like, that's one of the things that you just really have to get over. you have to, you have to pull the trigger. You just do, you have to pull the trigger. And if you don't pull the trigger, you're never going to get comfortable doing that. And that's where you're never going to get the deal. You're just never going to get the deal. And then you're going to come back and be like, Oh, well, I'll just do the turnkey thing, and then you're going to get a bunch of bad deals and they're going to quit real estate forever, And you're gonna be like, real estate doesn't work. Then you'll be part of the masses that think that real estate doesn't work. So you just can't skip that step. And I think that's what we want to emphasize here in the financial freedom fighters podcast. You have to put in the work. Don't take the easy button. If you are looking at these turnkey companies, at least arm yourself with the underwriting knowledge to be able to poke holes and they're underwriting. Still do your due diligence on the market and the neighborhoods that you're putting yourself in. Like, honestly, just look at the, Just try to find the property in the area and look at that area and just try to figure out if that's even a good area. even if you are doing the turnkey thing, still assess the property as if you're not And try to run it through the same filters and the same criteria. But again, I really just don't think you should, I really just don't think you should, like, we have to take a firm stance. I don't think you should do turnkey. Um, because the likelihood in my view is higher than not that you're going to get a bad deal. And that's, that's not what we want here on the financial freedom fighters podcast. We want you to get good deals. We want, we want you to get deals that allow you to stay in the game because we know that the real money is made in the longterm. So you need to be picking up deals that you're comfortable with. Picking up deals that you can continue to do for a long time so that we can all achieve financial freedom and together, and then be sipping my ties on a beach. Right, Mike.

Mike: 24:16

Yeah, absolutely. My word, whatever your, whatever your flavor of choices, pina colada, strawberry daiquiri, my tie, whatever, you know, we'll, we'll have a big, I'll have a big beach barbecue, right?

Jacob: 24:27

Mike, any closing thoughts on kind of the topic of turnkey today?

Mike: 24:31

Yeah, I, once again, I'm, I'm not here to, you know, I don't want to shit on everybody because there are some, there are some decent, you know, providers out there more often than not, though. I see bad deals coming from those, from, from some of most of these large, you know, providers I've had multiple people call me over the years. You know, bought from a, you know, people who just found me, right, either through bigger pockets or Facebook or Instagram or referral from somebody and they'll call me and say, Hey, I bought this property from, you know, X, Y, Z and it was last year and it's just been terrible, right? We had to do an eviction and then it cost me 3000 and and then I had to do this and, you know, I want to find out what the property is worth and. On several occasions, I've like ran a, you know, ran a CMA form and the property, I can't even justify selling it for what they paid for it, let alone, you know, getting them any type of profit out of the, out of the property. So Yeah, it's, it's, it's tough.

Jacob: 25:28

yeah. So, I mean, look at the end of the day, If you're listening to this podcast, I know that you are serious about wanting to be a real estate investor. So, you know, just be weary of anything that appears to be a shortcut. Cause there just are no shortcuts in this game and just roll up the sleeves, do the work. And I think, I think the most important thing, Mike, at the end of the day is you just, that first deal is so, so important. That first deal is so, so important. And the experience that you have with that first deal, for example, I bought a rental property completely on accident. It was supposed to be a primary. I've told the story a bunch of times in Portland, Oregon, ended up turning into a rental property. And just the fact that I got a tenant in there, the fact that the rent covered the mortgage and the fact that I had a property manager that was decent in that market, and then I saw that all play out that unleashed a whole host of thoughts in my head about the possibility of doing this at a high level. Because I had done this all completely by accident. And I said, if I can do this with more intentionality, if I can do this with a little bit more effort and a little bit more work, then I can really make this happen. But it was all because I saw it play out in that first kind of accidental deal. And that's why the deal is so important. That first deal is so important because whether you have a good deal or whether you have a bad deal or whether we have like an okay deal, it's going to dictate if you do the second deal. And if you have the terrible first deal, which so many of these people that buy from turnkey companies end up having, then you might just think real estate doesn't work and that's not true. As we know, you just have to get a deal, get on base, Don't swing for the fences. Don't look for the easy button. Find a great investor friendly agent like Mike that you trust. Learn how to underwrite deals, continue to listen to this podcast and just get on base. that's a little bit of a shorter episode today. I hope you guys are doing well. If you guys enjoyed this episode or any other episode of the financial freedom fighters podcast, Mike and I. Uh, would really appreciate kind of a five star review. You know, we put a lot of effort into these podcasts, sharing as much knowledge as we can with you guys. So we really appreciate the five star review. Uh, Mike, if people want to get in touch with you to do deals in Cleveland, where can they reach out to you?

Mike: 27:38

Yeah, you can reach out to us on, uh, Instagram or Facebook, uh, at Realtor Michael Magno. Uh, I've got the YouTube channel up to almost 100, 000 views this year. So if you could go give me a, a, a subscribe, that would be awesome. Um, you know, working with my guy, Alex here doing, doing my socials and, uh, doing some video content. I enjoy putting the videos together and, um, you know, helping people, right. Helping people. That's what we're about. So

Jacob: 28:04

Absolutely. Absolutely. So go give Mike a follow on all socials at realtor, Michael Magno. Um, I am Jacob Sandoval on all socials at cashflow saga, also doing a lot of work to get my YouTube game up. Um, so go ahead and give me a follow on YouTube as well. We'll see you in the next episode. Peace.

Mike: 28:25

see ya.

Nancy: 28:25

Goodbye