Financial Freedom Fighters
Step into the world of real estate investing with your hosts, Jacob and Mike. Join Jacob, a W-2 tech employee trying to escape the rat race, and Mike Magno, a top 1% Cleveland realtor, as they share real stories and valuable insights from their journey towards financial freedom.
Financial Freedom Fighters
EP #3 - How To Buy Your First Rental Property (Part 2)
In this podcast episode, Jacob and Mike outline nine essential steps for those interested in real estate investing. They emphasize the significance of the decision to invest and stress the need for clear investment criteria. Building a reliable team, securing financing, and identifying suitable properties are discussed, followed by insights into deal analysis and due diligence, focusing on significant inspection points. They highlight the role of property managers and describe the straightforward closing process. Throughout, the hosts share their experiences and encourage aspiring investors to connect with them on social media for further guidance, underlining that the first deal, while challenging, is a vital step toward a successful real estate portfolio.
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jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:step number five, analyzing deals and making offers, right? You are actually in the trenches at this point, looking at deals and firing off offers. And I do wanna acknowledge probably the anxiety that comes with submitting your first offers. I know that that's something that I felt for the first several offers. You're just like, what if it gets accepted? What if it gets accepted? And that's fine. That's fine. That anxiety's gonna be there. But you can reduce that anxiety a little bit if you know how to run the numbers. If you know how to run the numbers, you are quantifying and trying to eliminate some of the anxiety with not knowing how the property's gonna perform and how it's likely to do for you from an investment perspective if you know how to run the numbers. So, We could probably do a whole episode and we might do a whole episode on deal analysis and deal deep dives and things like that. But at a very, very high level, we'll kind of touch on what are the big, what are the big buckets we need to pay attention to, and what are some of the high level math that we can try to do to understand if this property is gonna perform or even be a worthwhile investment?'cause let's be real, Mike, most of the properties that are listed on M L Ss or on Redfin, Zillow, whatever, they're not gonna make great investments, right? They're, they, they would, they would probably be poor investments if we're thinking about a traditional cash flow perspective. A lot of deals even in Cleveland wouldn't cash flow, Right. And let alone other markets that are not known for cash flow. So it's imperative. It's imperative that you as the investor know how to run the numbers, so you're not buying bad deals. And I would say your investor friendly agent will also know how to run the numbers, but do not rely on them. Because you should also have that skillset. You should also know what you're doing, know how to run your numbers, and there's no excuse. There's a lot of tools out there. I have a calculator that I use BiggerPockets as a calculator. There's calculators everywhere and these things are built to, to just input a few numbers and it's gonna tell you what the cash on cash return is, right? So there's no excuse. If you can input some numbers, if you could do some basic addition and subtraction and division, then you know how to analyze a real estate deal. But I'll take two steps back. Let's just think about this. What is the basic, basic formula for trying to understand the profitability of a rental property? It is very simply. Your income minus your expenses equals your cash flow. At a high level income, mine expenses equals your cash flow. That is the formula for basically any business. And when you buy an investment property, that is what you are doing. You are purchasing a mini business. Each rental property operates as a business, generates revenue in the form of rent. It has operating expenses and that hopefully at the end of the day you have extra money. That is your profit. That is your cash flow, right? So don't overcomplicate it. This is very simple. It's income might exist, expenses equals cash flow. So let's break that down income, Mike. Very simply, if we're talking about a rental property, your income is coming from the rent that you're able to get. So where you look that up, you can look it in a variety of different ways. You can manually look it up on Zillow to see what the properties are renting for in that particular neighborhood. You can look@rentometer.com and you could just like find that that's what I do. You know? And just be realistic here, right? Be realistic. Don't assume you're gonna get the highest rents in that neighborhood. There's probably a reason why that property's renting for a lot more. Maybe it has more amenities, et cetera, but that's it. If there's other income, it's not super typical for smaller properties, but if there's other income, maybe there's storage unit, maybe there's laundry income, there could be other things, but for the most part, smaller. Single family, smaller multi-family, it's just gonna be the rent, right? And so that's your income. Your expenses are gonna be are your property taxes? What are your insurance? What are the utilities that you're responsible for? Gas and electric typically is the responsibility of the tenant, right? Most of the time, water and sewer kind of depends on the metering situation, but usually landlords, especially in Cleveland, are responsible for water and sewer. And then you have things like landscaping, garbage maybe is something you'll take into consideration. So those are your big operating expenses. And then one of the big areas that are overlooked from a beginning investor when analyzing a potential cash flow of a property is the reserves stuff is gonna break at the property, stuff is gonna need to be replaced. Your fridge, your laundry machines, the roof eventually, right? All of these things are gonna need to be replaced. And if you are not budgeting for that in your deal analysis with maintenance reserves, CapEx reserves, Your property's gonna be vacant. I dealt with the double vacancy this year. It hurt. You have to budget for these eventualities and you have to factor that into the deal analysis. So does your reserves. And lastly, the biggest expense category, which is not technically an operating expense, is your debt service, right? Your actual mortgage and your interest. And so that is gonna be easy to calculate. Your lender's gonna let, let you know exactly what that is, the big driver of, that's interest rate and the down payment, et cetera. And that's it. You take your income, subtract all your operating expenses, subtract your debt service, and what you have is your cashflow. And hopefully that number's positive. And then you take that and you say, okay, cool. Let's say the property's generating$200 a month. How much money did you invest in that property to actually generate that$200 a month? That's gonna give you your cash on cash return, right? So if you had a property, let's say, for an entire year, is. Generating a thousand bucks in cashflow if you invested 10,$10,000 for that, right? That would be a 10% cash on cash return, right? If you put$10,000. Now, if you put way more money than that into it, your cash on cash return goes down, right? So that's why the cash on cash return is important because the net cash flow number is one thing, but how much money you took to put into that to generate that cash on cash return helps you understand the efficiency of that particular property. Just because something's generating 500 bucks in cash flow doesn't make it better than a property that's generating 250, especially if it took much more money to generate that$500. So that's the cash on cash return.
Track 1:So we're, we're past that initial phase of getting the property that we like, like you, the example you used, you sent me in an email with eight properties of the eight. I only liked one. So maybe that's one that we then dive into the deal analysis on, like you just laid out. And then if we liked that result at that point, okay, let's, let's, let's put an offer in, right? Well, what's the offer gonna look like? Well, it depends, you know, um, for a long time everything had multiple offers and it was gonna, selling 10, 15, 20% over and, uh, pretty wild. Uh, is that happening today? Yeah, it still is. It still is. Um, is it happening as much? Not as much, but it's still ultra competitive out there. So what you have to do then is obviously look at a range, right? Like, what could this sell for? And you have to then determine whether or not that, you know, making those numbers in your spreadsheet. Does that work? And then from there, you know, making offers is tough. Um, and you're gonna have to write more offers than you probably want to. But at the end of the day, what I also tell people is, remember this is, um, this is not your forever home. This is a, a vehicle, um, to help you build that, that financial know-how right? To get, to get, uh, from, get you from point A to point B. So from that perspective, you want to then, you know, make efficient offers. You want to, and you want to offer what you can, right? And I always tell people too, and I probably told you this Jacob as well, when you make the offer,'cause I'll have people ask me, what should I offer? At the end of the day, like you have to determine what that is. I will tell you what I see, right? Like, I'll run an analysis, I'll run a comp report, I'll share the comp report with you, and I'll look at it from that perspective and go, well, hey, I, I think it's priced right, or no, like it's, it's priced low. Like they did this on purpose, right? Um, or even it's priced high. Like, I'll tell you, I'll be the first one to tell you, Hey, if a, a deal's high, deal's high, you know, and if they get, you know, the, if they get a cash buyer to come in and buy it, okay, great. Good for them, you know, good for them. Um, you know, so those are the things,
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:What are the, what are the different elements besides price? Obviously, Mike, and there's there, there's a philosophy and your agent is gonna counsel you on how, how, where are you coming in terms of the offer and price, like, how much over should we be or should we stick at the list? There's like, and, and things like that. So there's obviously the price component, which is clear, right, of the offer. But what are the, what are the different copo, other components of the offer that are important and that could potentially differentiate a buyer's offer from all the other offers that that property might be
Track 1:you know, it's not as, it's not that complicated anymore. Um, you know, what, what are the other terms that you can change, uh, earnest money, right? You can make it in a bigger earnest money deposit. You know, earnest money used to really, really have a lot of teeth and mean something. It doesn't mean as much as it used to, but because of how difficult it is for you to have to actually lose your earnest money. But
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:Can we explain, can we explain earnest money deposit for the, for the
Track 1:Yeah, absolutely. Um, earnest money deposit or what's called, what would used to be called your good faith deposit, right? Um, would be, is money that you're putting into the escrow that's gonna be used towards your cash to close, that you are willing to risk in the event that you. Breach the contract. Right. Um, and it depends on the, on the, the state depends on the lo location on how much that is. In our market, one to 2% of the contract price is pretty standard, people always get all, especially the new investor, they get hung up on the earnest money. Just understand that, hey, the es, you're gonna, you're gonna give that money to the escrow company. The escrow, the escrow company's gonna hold it in their trust account. That money doesn't leave that trust account until you go to closing table, period. the next contingency, contingency in the contract would obviously be the inspection contingency. Um, I never counsel anybody to waive an inspection. Um, if we lose a deal because someone else waived inspections, then you just tip your hat and you wish them luck and we move on to the next deal. And the reason being is while I'm your eyes and ears here, and I'm very knowledgeable, I'm also not a home inspector, so I'm not, I I, I can't pretend to be one. so that's why I tell people like, inspections are very important and don't waive them.
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:we have step one, determine the goals and budgets. Step two, picked a target market. Step three got linked up with an investor friendly agent. Step four, gotten pre-approved. Step five, figured out how to analyze deals, started firing off offers. And step six, where we are right now, you are under contract. Congrats.
Track 1:Congrats. now.
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:are now.
Track 1:Now.
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:Now, now the real, now the real fund begins, and this is a, it's a mindset shift, right? You started going from looking at tons of different properties, analyzing a bunch of deals, firing off different offers, trying to understand the different neighborhood. And it all kind of comes to this slow motion stop. You get that call from your agent. Hey, we're under contract and now there's a new level of anxiety that kind of overcomes the first time buyer, which is like, oh man, now we're actually really doing this thing. You have any other things to say about getting under contract?
Track 1:You know, when, when you get under contract, obviously it's, it's, it's uplifting, right? Like you're happy, right? Um, but understanding that that's when the real work begins, right? That's when, that's when everyone's digging in, right? Um, you know, I'm working back channels to get us access, to get video tours, to get pictures, to get the inspecting team in there through all that subtle stuff, and then that then rolls into the due diligence, right? Which is kind of that next step that we're gonna talk about. So
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:Step seven? Step seven. So getting under contract is a step because it's a mindset shift, but it really kicks off the due diligence period, which is I. The next hurdle to kind of clear to get this transaction closed. And so Mike, I'll, I'll pass it over to you, but at a high level, from my perspective as the, the investor due diligence is the period you have to really understand if this is a property that fits your goals, that fits your criteria, a property that you really do want to go with the transaction with. Because once the inspection period closes, you cannot back out. And if you do back out, you lose your earnest money deposit like we had talked about earlier. take this as an opportunity. Re-look at your financials, right? Do more research on that specific zip code, do more research, make sure you like the neighborhood, get more information. And then obviously as these inspections are coming through, Take the time to really understand what you're looking at here, because this is your time to kick the tires, to look under the hood, to just say, okay, I feel good about this, this, this feels like it's an investment property that I want to go through with. And Mike, what are your, uh, kind of tidbit on, on due diligence?
Track 1:So, due diligence, right? That's the whole process that you're gonna go through as the investor, um, to understand that this property is the one that I want, right? So first things first, we start with the inspection process. So, you know, I've got obviously a great inspection team in place. I'll work those channels, we'll get the inspections set up. Typically what we recommend is obviously the gen, the general home inspection, and then depending on the age of the property, you know, we've talked about the sewer scopes, right? Um, those are the two biggies, right? In our market. Um, from there, during the due diligence period, you have to get your earnest money deposit to the escrow company. Uh, and my contract that my brokerage uses, it says you have four days to do that. Um, you know, my admin will send out an email introduction to the, to you as the client saying, Hey, these are, and he lines it out for you in the email. It, it's, this is your contracted date. This is your contracted close date. This is the earnest money due date. This is, uh, the title company's information. This is who you need to talk to. Um, this is how many days you have for inspection. Like, he lays it out for you. To give you that information succinctly in one snapshot, right? You know, and then other contingencies that you do have built into the contract, you know, there, there's title, right? Uh, you have to be able, especially if you're using, um, a loan, if you're leveraging the property, you have to be able to be given clear and marketable title, which means that you've, you've, you're purchasing the property free of any liens, encumbrances, things like that. And then also too, I mean, there is that appraisal, um, you know, your, your pre-approval typically says right on the pre-approval it is contingent on a satisfactory appraisal. And a satisfactory appraisal is a, an appraisal that meets or exceeds the contracted sale price. So, um, but yeah, so that's the due diligence in a nutshell. You know, you're gonna have seven to 10, 12 days or so for us to do that. Uh, once we get the inspection back, you're gonna get a nice report, usually within about 24 hours. At that point we review the, we review the report, um, and then we determine next steps. Um,
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:yeah.
Track 1:and next steps can be a, a myriad of things. It can be you accept the property and as is condition, you walk away, you could ask for some type of re repair or concession.
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:this is really important, I feel, for the beginning investor we you're getting an inspection report that's 50 pages long that outlines everything that's potentially wrong with the property, right? There's a little leak here. This outlet seems like it doesn't work or whatever. All these things are gonna pile up and everything is gonna seem really, really serious. And that, I think is a, a function of the inspection industry in general. They, they have a lot of liability. They, they wanna make sure that they are calling out everything because they don't want somebody to come back and be like, Hey, you missed all these things. So they're gonna call everything out, everything that they possibly see and just know, and Mike said this to me in the first deal. don't look at the in inspection report as a doomsday report. You should really focus on the big ticket items. What are the things that, if something's wrong with it, is gonna cost you a lot of money? The actual things that are gonna cause you to, tank this deal. What are the big things, right? The mechanicals, the hvac, the water heater, the big items like the roof. Does a roof need to re replace pretty soon? That, really changes the kind of unit economics of a deal. is there anything wrong with the foundation that's typically not very easy to fix, right? So focus on the big ticket items and if the, and the sewers scope the sewer right? Make sure the sewers in good working order, especially for an older property. If those big ticket items are in a good spot, you're probably okay. You're probably okay.
Track 1:no, it's a, it's a great point. Um, you know, what I tell people is the, the biggest things that you have to worry about in these properties is foundation, roof, electrical system, plumbing system, windows, because those are your biggest, biggest of the big ticket items that you'll have to deal with. So, um, beyond that, I mean, including HVAC as well. Um, you know, beyond that, if everything's in good working order, um, and you have at least half the life left of the, say, the roof and the mechanicals.'cause if the electrical has been updated, it's been updated, it doesn't need to be touched again. If the plumbing has been updated, you know, from, you know, galvanized steel lines to copper or pecs, No need to mess with that, right? Um, but those other items can get, can get pricey. So as long as they have, I always tell people, as long as they have at least half their life left, um, which is typically, you know, a roof here, 25, 30 years, if it's done correctly and they're using a good shingle, um, you're gonna get 25, 30 years. Um, furnaces, if you take care of'em, you're gonna get 25, 30 years.
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:that is due diligence. And again, folks, don't be overwhelmed. just rely on your agent to kind of walk you through the process. Um, just try to go through it with the level head, but I, I totally understand how anxious that can feel. Um, there's no way to get around that. Your first deal, especially. It's gonna be a pretty nerve wracking step in the process. So, moving on to step number eight, this is while you're conducting due diligence, while you're under contract for a particular property, you should, at this time probably be speaking to property managers. And for those who are new to real estate investing, a property manager is the person that is going to, once you close on the transaction, is gonna take over that property on your behalf. And they are going to be managing the day-to-day operations of that property. They're going to get it filled with tenants. They're gonna manage those tenants and the communication with those tenants. They're gonna collect rents, they're gonna manage maintenance and repairs of the property. They're gonna do all of the boots on the ground, day-to-day operations of the property and. That for somebody that wants to build a passive income stream, and again, real estate is not passive entirely, but it's more passive than working an actual active job for sure. And it can be more passive if you have a great property manager. So I'm a big advocate for a property manager. How much is that gonna cost? Probably eight to 10% of the gross monthly rents, just depending on who the property manager is and what the company is. Well worth the cost. Well worth the cost. You don't want to be one of the big arguments against investing in real estate, right? I don't wanna deal with tenants and toilets and nobody does. Nobody does, right? I don't. I definitely don't. So that's why you hire a property manager. So at this time, this is a critical moment and again, all goes back to your cheat code of an investor friendly agent. Any, in any agent that is a good solid one, will have spent the time to build connections with Different property managers in the market, right? And so they can offer you up multiple property managers. And same thing with the agent. You want to interview a property manager who, one you have a good, you can build a good rapport with, right? Because property management's a tough, tough job and you have to have some tough conversations sometimes with their property manager. So you want to pick one that you like, right? One they can have a good rapport with. And yeah. So I, I, I think this is an important step and they're also gonna have a different perspective. They, they're gonna know what the rental market is specifically, right? In different zip codes. They're gonna know exactly what rent you can get. So you can gut check your rental estimates and your underwriting. They're gonna know how much the water bill is gonna come out to. They're gonna know how much it's gonna cost to do certain repairs and things like that, right? And so, interview some property managers, get some good property manager contacts from your agent, and, uh, and yeah, interview, interview property managers and try to get one line up before closing because at that point, when you close. If your agent and your property manager know each other, it can be, in my experience, as simple as the property manager come, gets the keys from you, Mike, the agent, and you're, you're off to the races. So anything to add there on the property management side,
Track 1:Yeah, I mean, I tell people, you know, property management is the hardest part of the equation when it comes to rental, uh, property investing. Um, and it's the most thankless, uh, part of it too. I mean, honestly, because of the things that you outlined that the tenants and the toilets and this and that. Um, so yeah, it's, it's a, it's a critical part of the, of the function. Um, but, but a necessary one really is, um, but yeah, the property manager obviously is gonna be a critical part of the, of, of the equation as well. Just like the, just like the agent, just like the lender, um, you know, those are, those are probably your three. You wanna look at it like a tripod, right? The, the three pillars of your tripod are gonna be your, your, your agent, your property manager, and then your lender. So, yeah.
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:Yep. Yep, And so we'll cut to the last step here, which is you've gone through due diligence, you've accepted it, you've interviewed property manager, you've selected a property manager. And I'm actually gonna say the last step here, Mike, is you close. You close. So what happens when you actually close? What does that actually look like for the buyer? I'm a buyer that doesn't live in Cleveland, and I'm closing on a property in Cleveland. And so the closing can actually be a pretty uneventful day itself. Right? They'll, the title company will send out a, um, what's the, what's
Track 1:notary.
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:Notary, uh, property, uh, the title company will send out Notary to visit you in your actual location. This triplex, they came into my home and you'll sign a ton of documents, a ton of documents, get ready to, to be signing documents for probably an hour and a half. You don't have to actually bring any checks or anything like that. All of that stuff is being wired to the title company so that, again, you're gonna wire your down payment, your closing costs. You'll get the final amount that you need to wire from your, uh, lender and from the title company. So you'll wire that amount, you'll sign some documents, and that's pretty much it, right? You'll get a, you'll get a nice call from your, from your agent, saying, congrats. And when are we doing the next one? But anything else to add there, Mike? From a, from a closing perspective?
Track 1:I mean that, it's kind of, I'll be honest, it's a little anti-climatic. It is really, once you get to the end,'cause you're like, you're, you're kind of worn out. But it, it is a good feeling. Right. So yeah, just to, to touch on, you know,'cause I get that question a lot. Like, do I have to physically be there to close? No, this is, it's, it's 2023. Um. We can sign you pretty much anywhere. Um, so you know, the title companies will find a mobile notary to wherever you live, and they'll send'em to your place of business. They'll send'em to your house, usually, um, and you'll sign your docs. Then they will actually have to over, they will overnight them back, um, to Ohio, to the title companies because the, the file has to be filed with the county where you're buying the property. All the money has to be received from your bank, from the down payment and from the lender. And at which point they've received all that. They can do what's called funding and filing the deal. So they fund it, right, so that the seller gets his money and then they file the deal with the county. That means you own it. At that point though, the title company usually, you know, if we use my title company for example, they send out a text message, we'll get an email. Um, and at that point we all know, Hey, hey, great, you know, you'll get a text message from me. Congrats. And then from there, that's where I step in and handle off the, the handoff process to the property manager. Um, and they'll, they'll take over, whether it's getting them a set of keys, uh, getting'em copies of leases, it's all gonna depend on the particular property. If your property's vacant, obviously we'll just get the property manager, your, the keys. Um, from there, he will then take over with you in, in, uh, concert together to get the property rented. If there's repairs that need to be done, he'll execute that for you. If it's already rented, then it's, it's a lot less transitional. It's literally just. Getting, if there is a set of keys, getting the set of an extra set of keys to the property manager, getting'em a copy of the leases, getting the property manager, uh, all the contact information for the tenants. And we, and we collect all that information during due diligence anyway, so we'll have it in your file ready to go to turn over to the property manager. Um, and from that point, yeah, you're, you're now transitioned from newbie to investor, right? You've,
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:investor. To investor, and, and you've graduated and, and this is important, right, Mike, because I, I think one thing that I, that I've heard in different podcasts, which I, I really, really like, is there are a lot people who do zero real estate deals. And there are a lot of people who do a ton of real estate deals, but there is no one, no one that only does one. That only does one, right? So after you do the first one, you will do the second one. It might not be immediately, but you will do the second one. I'm testament to this as well. I did my first deal and. Did my second deal, probably six months after that. And so you will, the first one is the hardest to do, honestly. It's the hardest to do the, the most anxiety to overcome, the most fearful you. And after that, you've learned a ton. You've gone through it once, and the second time is not nearly as scary, right? The third time is not nearly as scary, scary after that. And so congrats on on obviously getting to the very end of your first deal. There's so much still to learn, but you've taken a massive, massive step in, in, in acquiring the first one. And it's gonna be the first of many.
Track 1:Yeah, it's, uh, it, it's very typical. It's very typical. I have very few people that I've worked with that have only bought one, so,
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:yep, yep,
Track 1:it's, usually a, it's, it's usually a stepping stone to, to more, more bigger and better things. So,
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:yep, yep.
Track 1:um, and you know, usually it goes, it goes good. It doesn't have to, but it, it, you know, it usually does. Um, there's always gonna be hurdles to get through. I mean, even, you know, with your deals, we've had hurdles and my own deals, I've had hurdles. Um, but, uh, you know, at the end of the day we, you know, we're, we're truck, we're trucking along to the, to that goal. And, um, we're gonna keep plugging away.'cause as we said last time, and we'll say this time, and we'll say every time in the future, if, if this was, if it were easy, everyone would do it right. Um, so it's, it's not easy, but it's not, it's not rocket science. So,
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:Absolutely. Absolutely. I know that was a lot, we went through a lot of info on this episode, but I hope we provided some value for you. If you are just thinking about jumping into real estate investing or maybe you've done one deal already, but And so Mike, as we wrap up episode two, where can people connect with you?
Track 1:Yeah. So, uh, most of my socials are, are realtor Michael Magno. That's the Instagram handle. Uh, YouTube. Uh, you can find me on Facebook, uh, the Magno group, right? Um, that's pretty much anything you'll find me. Um, or honestly, via email too would be easy. You know, michael@themagnogroup.com, all one word, pretty, pretty simple. Uh, shoot me a message and uh, we can hook up from there. What about you?
jacob_1_09-08-2023_141007:awesome. Me. I am at Cashflow Saga on all socials, so that's Cash Flow Saga. I also have my website, cashflow saga.com. I blog about real estate investing. Obviously And so go check me out there. Shoot me a follow on social and shoot mic a follow. And I think that's episode two. Thank you everybody, and we will see you in episode three. Peace.
Track 1:See ya.
