EP #8 - Overcoming Limiting Beliefs and Doing $1M a Year on Airbnb

In this dynamic podcast episode, Jacob, Mike, and guest Matt, a seasoned real estate investor and coach, embark on a comprehensive exploration of achieving financial freedom through real estate. Matt shares his inspiring journey from a challenging background to corporate success and ultimately to financial independence. The trio delves into the mindset shifts crucial for success, the intricacies of real estate investing—particularly in short-term rentals like Airbnb—and the significance of coaching in accelerating one's journey to financial freedom.

The conversation transitions to Matt's initiatives in aiding others on their real estate paths, including a potential partnership program and the transformative power of coaching. Matt's emphasis on data-driven strategies, such as meticulous deal analysis, adds a practical layer to the discussion. The episode concludes with a motivational call to break free from traditional job constraints, find joy in pursuits that align with one's passions, and unlock exponential wealth through real estate endeavors. Matt's insights and the hosts' engaging dialogue make this episode a valuable resource for those seeking actionable steps and inspiration on the path to financial independence through real estate.

Connect with Matt:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mybrokermatt/
Website: https://stan.store/mybrokermatt

FREE Real Estate Investing Tools & Resources:
https://www.cashflowsaga.com/links

Join The Waitlist For "Rental Property Investing 101":
https://tinyurl.com/k4vpbd5u

Connect with Jacob:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cashflowsaga/
Website: https://www.cashflowsaga.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@cashflowsaga
Twitter: https://twitter.com/cashflowsaga

Connect with Mike:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realtormichaelmagno/
Website: https://themagnogroup.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@realtormichaelmagno

Transcript

Nancy: 0:00

This is the Financial Freedom Fighters Podcast

jacob: 0:13

Welcome everybody to the financial freedom fighters podcast. I'm your host, Jacob Sandoval. epic guest here today. He has a remarkable journey. He's currently dominating it in the Airbnb space with over 30 units. He's got it popping on Instagram with over 20, 000 followers. He has a real estate brokerage. He is a mortgage broker, but most importantly, he has a beautiful family and he's a brand new father. He just launched an Airbnb coaching program. We have the STR legend himself, Matthew McCall Stillman, my broker, Matt. Matt, say what's up to the people.

matt: 0:50

What's up my people, Jacob, man, what a hype man. I love this

jacob: 0:56

Hey, I had to do it right. I had to do it right. You blessed the podcast. So I had to do it right. I'm just really excited to dive into your story today. So why don't we start with the origin story, the X Men origin story. Who was Matt before, before real estate?

matt: 1:11

man. And that's an interesting question. I will say when it comes to X Men in college, I did go as Wolverine. I could probably find that photo for you eventually. But that

jacob: 1:20

I see it. I see it.

matt: 1:23

I loved it when Hugh Jackman did it. Um, yeah, let's talk about the, uh, my origin story. I've been really trying to work on getting back to my basics. Somebody actually called me actually to my benefit. They called me a trust fund kid. And it was like, I was like, that's funny. Okay. I was like, why do you think that? Like, well, it looks like you got no problems in the world. It looks like you had it easy. I was like, that's funny. That's really funny. and as we kind of explained, it went down that path of conversation because they opened up. we discovered I am actually not even close to being a trust fund kid. I'm going to pull you into some emotional thoughts because I want you guys to know that, I've seen many entrepreneurs start from the bottom. I don't know about you guys, but I remember vividly a time where I didn't think I was, I was meant to stay in this world. I mean, I was depressed. I just felt like I could not get ahead. I felt like everything that came up for me. Was just a wall and another hurdle after a hurdle. And I just felt like my life was just going to, this is what it's going to be. It's gonna be shit. My life is going to be shit. And I guess that's what I deserve. I must be a piece of shit. This is, I remember, I remember thinking to myself, the world has roles and that's the role I will fill for this world. That's how seriously dark and like jaded I became. it's cause I did, I had some, I had some shit luck, just, just some real shit luck. I kinda go back, you know, my, I grew up kind of weird. My, uh, my dad's from California. My mom's from here. They met out there. they had more than drinks and then boom, here I am, right? Uh, but back and forth between California and Michigan growing up, I ended up staying in Michigan, in Detroit proper. And while being here, we had it, we kind of had it rough. A lot of, a lot of deaths, some murder, some cancer, you know, you name it. I had a drive by on my house to kill me. I think that's one thing I've forgotten to tell people. It was an intentional thing to kill me. Because I had a friend come over, we were treating them to dinner, we let him go wash his hands, he went upstairs, went into my stepdad's drawer, stole like 500 bucks, we figured out the next day, went and approached him, uh, we were at his house. And then later that night, we had a drive by wonder, wonder what the relationship is there. So that's, that's how a lot of my life started. A lot of robberies. We got, I think we got robbed 19 times. last time we got robbed was Christmas Eve. So, um, Anyway, that's all to say, no matter where you started and maybe started above that, I'm happy for you that listen, you don't have to be shot at stabbed or go through hell to be respected. Right? That's not my point. The point is you can start from hell and still work your way out. That's what I want to connect with you guys on today. So fast forward a little bit. I ended up going to a pretty good high school, University of Detroit Jesuit high school. Sounds like a college. It's not college prep school. And I ended up going to U of M, and U of M thought life was getting a little bit better, ended up getting into a really bad car accident, car, the gap insurance wouldn't pay out. So then I got stuck. we got stuck again. I was like, Oh, here it comes again. And. So I started riding my bicycle to work. I was a server at Olive Garden. I was a server at Melting Pot. And I just quit my job at Olive Garden to upgrade my life to go to Melting Pot when my car was totaled. I had to rent a couch for a few months just to like have a place to stay Another friend started paying for my cell phone. I was so broke. He felt bad for me. He started to say, when you can pay, pay me back. And I was like, cool. And then I was like, all right, time to get, get gritty and get deep. finished up my degree at U of M. two, we got finance and medical sciences and, I was going to go the medical route, but then, uh, Changes happened with the curriculum and it was going to take me another six months to a year to get to have to reapply with the credits I needed. And I was like, I can't do it anymore. So I was like, all right, screw it. I'm gonna go get a job. My mom worked at Kraken loans. Um, the title source actually, it was the title company of Kraken loans. so I go, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go see if I can get a job here. he's like, you got the job. Let's go walk. Let's go get lunch. I was like, Oh my God, that's amazing. and then. I met somebody named Vanessa. she's now one of my best friends. I'm her first daughter's goddad, but she was sitting across from me just cause they did a shuffling around of everybody. I was a brand new underwriter. She was a senior underwriter as I'm sitting next to her. She was so sweet. She was so good to me. She clowned on me sometimes. She's like, you should have known that. But then she started doing something different. She got, she was like, you know what, you're learning quickly. Like you're making mistakes, but you, you bounce back quickly. She's like, I think you can do really well. If you really focus for the next five years, I think you can be like us making six figures and I was like, bullshit, I started at 35, 36 K with. Bonuses that might get me to 41. she said in five years, if I bust my ass, I could get there. And I was like, I started thinking about it. I'm like, when have I ever had anybody bet on me? That's in a position that's above where I want to be above where I am and where I want to effectively be. I started realizing, you know what? I want to take a chance here. I want to take a chance. And she was like, I want you to study all this. I want you to do this, like do this, do that. Um, I did those things. I said I was going to do. I would go home after my work was done. I would just study over all the material, try to make it so I would memorize all of the laws and rules for our overlays and our regulations with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, just so I didn't have to like waste time during my working hours to look it up. And by doing that, within six months, I was making six figures. So I went from five years to six months because I said, I'm going to pledge and dedicate myself. what I was also realizing was a lot of people that kept getting properties, kept buying properties were rentals were renter owners and their landlords. I'm like, Mike. Okay. And I've requested documents from these people to get their mortgages. And I was like, this was semi ignorant, but kind of funny. I go, this guy is so stupid. but he's got 30 properties. Why can't I do that? I'm like, not to be a jerk, but I think I am smarter than this guy. Why am I not doing it? And the number one reason I'm not doing it, probably why you're not doing it is because you got some. Some terrible, stupid fear, something that burnt you in the past. And now you're like, you're just worried about taking a, you're taking a step forward, you know, actually having some action behind the thoughts of a life that you probably deserve. And that's the thing where I was like, I finally let my belief in Vanessa, who believed in me finally take hold. And it finally worked out. Why don't I believe in myself still? And that's when I said, no, we gotta, we gotta try something. So I started coming up with some things and one of my best buds, he was doing really well. I said, Hey man, I don't have the capital yet, but I think I can do this. How do you, how about we partner on this? You bring in like a little bit more capital than me, I'll bring in, you know, let's say 70, 30 split and I'll get a percentage for managing it. So we can even it out. You don't do anything. You just provide the money. I'll do the sweat equity and I'll bring in, you know, some equity. And he was like, you know what, I'm kind of intrigued. I've, we've had a good relationship. I used to manage his company too. Um, so we had that history and he was like, you know, let's do it. So I cut him before I even realized that I was coming up with a creative partnership. Didn't even realize what I was doing at the time. I was just trying to work with what I had. What's my point here to you guys, you might have exactly what you need to get ahead in life. You just haven't voiced it and you haven't talked to the right people. That's, that's another lesson we're going to hit on today. So as it continued to evolve, we ended up getting like, I think it was seven units, seven properties. and they all did well Airbnb started for us. Three, four years ago now. Um, and my partner at the time, he had the first one and he was killing it. It was in a Mexican town in Detroit, just outside of Detroit. And I was like, how's this guy doing? So, so well at places ugly, like how, but I was like, I was curious. And my duplex, down river and, uh, Wyandotte, um, it was, we had our first vacancy coming up that was in line with that. And I was like, you know what, what's my risk. Some furnishing costs, maybe a couple of dead months before he gets up and running, or maybe it just fails entirely. I'm like, okay, so this is back when I furnished like crap. I didn't know how bad it was, but I now call it my college dorm room style. It looked like lame. It looked like hodgepodge. I was using Facebook marketplace cause I thought I was being clever. So all that aside, this is my first deal. I did Airbnb and lo and behold, I think by my second month we were profitable. And I was like, Ooh, this is pretty cool. We were making about 50 percent higher net than the longterm. And I was like, Hmm, okay. It's not crazy, but it's, it's a step for converted all the properties. To short term, though, what would happen? I was like, huh, that could be pretty good. So then I had another one come available. I converted that one. That one blew my mind. We started making 4, 000 a month on that. We bought it for 45. Pretty good margin, pretty good margins. And so then we go into our third one. And mind you, even when we first bought all these as, as long terms, there's, there's a thing I like to say to people who are trying to get into it. I know we said there's a lot of new folks. Um, your first property proves you can do it. That's the, that's the biggest mind change, right? the second property proves you can duplicate it. The third part property proves that you can follow a pattern. And after three, dude, it gets so much easier. Cause trust me after 10, it's just a blur. we own 51 properties, 52, depending on if we keep this next flip. and. It's, I don't even know how the hell we got here, but just one day we did. but all this is to say. I kept testing my limits, right? And I kept trying to figure out new things about what my, what, what I'm going to be good at. What am I capable of doing? And what I was also realizing was I'm a serial entrepreneur. and what's crazy is I didn't even realize it until this last, this last few months, the first property we bought with my partner ever, Townley, that was a long term property. It was a partnership. It was my first creative partnership. Then it became a short term rental just this last year. And on top of that, my wife is now running the co hosting. So it became four businesses for businesses. And if I didn't ever buy that property, I would never have arrived at those four businesses from one property. And that's, what's so crazy. You don't realize what that first property may do to your business acumen and where you scale to from there. So listen, if you aren't making moves, find somebody who'll kick you in the butt and do it. thank you, Vanessa, again, for what you, how you kicked me. I'm just believing in me that I could do. It was a huge, huge thing. Somebody that you can trust and respect to say that to you. Right. So now where we're at, um, 51 owned 31 Airbnb, uh, where some of those are midterms, you're starting to teach midterms now. and then we started doing co hosting and my wife. She's been coasting for two years now and last November, she quit her job as a pharmacist. She was a full time pharmacist. She quit. she kept, she stayed on as a floater. She'd pick up a shift maybe once, once a month. And then we had our baby, uh, three months old now last weekend. And you know, we have, we've both not been employed since November at this point. So all that being said, there's been a lot of growth. We're at 36 co host deals. We're adding probably another four this month. And, 70 Airbnb units between owned and managed. So we have tons of experience at this point. The group coaching, we went from one on one coaching last year to group coaching just a few weeks ago. And it is, it's been impactful guys. I got to tell you, like for me, buying houses is cool. Like setting up new properties and it's cool. It's fun, but like, I'm not going to lie to you. Like the first call with the mastermind, I was literally like tearing up because, um, that same night I got some text messages just saying, thank you. Day one has already changed my life. it resonated with them to their core. It was in their dreams, the thought, the real, the realization that they can do better and they can do better now. And that's what we're trying to hit on. We had a new guy join, um, last night for our call, and I got that same kind of message right after. He was like, dude. I've been pushing this off. You've had four calls with me. You've been patient with me. I'm so glad I joined last night proved to me that this was the right decision. And it's like, when I hear that feedback, because it's not just like, you know, some people are out there talking about, let me teach you short term rentals. They might teach you how their process goes for one, but no, we can teach you scale. Like we can, we got a broker license. We have a real estate broker license, mortgage broker, license done. The co hosting, we teach you guys how to capital raise, how to do creative partnerships, how to meet you, where you are, what are your capacities? If you suck at this, don't do that. If you're great at that, do that, you know, and that's, that's what we're trying to focus on. So for 2024, all we're doing. Building our own portfolio coaching, and we're helping some people buy properties that are more veteran. If they're not really veteran level for Airbnb, like acquisitions, because it usually requires a lot of coaching. Then we're going to start pushing them to the coaching. Um, but if they don't have a lot of questions, happy to just, you know, help people find properties here in Michigan.

jacob: 13:54

Matt, I want to, I want to jump in here because after your first coaching session, you posted kind of just like a very raw, like in the moment post on Instagram, just like kind of giving your thoughts on like how that went. And I just have to say, it's just, you can tell, you can feel like how genuine it is. And how much you are trying to help these people. And that's just like one thing that I want to say is that like, there's a lot of coaches out there, right? But I just haven't seen that level of just being genuine and caring as much as you do. And so I just wanted to say that because when I, when I watched that, it was like late at night too, when you posted that and. I, I just thought, I just thought it was awesome.

matt: 14:34

I really appreciate that Jacob. Cause that's what I want. You know, I've been, I, I, I think good coaches get coaching too. And one of the things that I've been getting taught was, how to kind of get more relatable, like, and, and remember where you were. And I've been really trying to focus on be present to where your people are. Right. Who are you talking to? Like, remember where they're at. Cause like where I'm at, yeah, I can bark off like what to do, but it sounds very robotic. but when I put myself in their shoes. And I remember where my, where I was, cause I was, I've been at a lot of different places in my life and it hurt and it was scary because you're afraid of getting burned. You're afraid of being misled. You're afraid of being taken advantage of. And the truth is, I think we all just wanted the perfect big brother, right? The perfect, somebody that just got your back. And it's like, as you're falling down, they're grabbing you, you know, and before you even hit the ground going, Hey, Hey, we got this. Let's keep walking. I'd rather not make as much as some coaches and, but have people that like are diehards and like, they're with me. And they get me. And like, when I work, when I go take a trip, I'm calling him up and go, yo, let's go meet up here. and like when I have my coat, my coaching graduation type of things, I want people to be there. I want emotion. I don't want anybody feeling like they have to come and like, you know, act a certain way or wear certain clothes. Like you're in, because you are, you are like the fruit of the earth, right? You, you came, you did the best you could, what you did, you have, and you executed, and that's, that's, that's the ultimate thing you can do to respect anybody, like just seeing somebody that's. Good to people, good to their family and working to constantly improve. And even if you're not, maybe you are a piece of crap right now, but if you're dedicated to change your life. Nobody can not respect that to some degree. Right. So that's what, that's what this is about, man. Thank you.

jacob: 16:24

How far you've come, right? There, there's a, there's an amount of wisdom that comes with being quote unquote, kind of at the top of the mountain, right? Like when you're going up the mountain, you know, you, you don't have that same vision, you don't have that same kind of clarity. but when you go and you've made the progress that you've had, and you look down that mountain, you know, you can see so much more, right. You can see so much more about like, Oh, this is how I got to this part. Or this is how I kind of like overcame that obstacle. This is like, you can see it all right. From that vantage point. So as you look down on your mountain, Matt, what were, you know, some of the key moments, what were some of the key things or insights that you have that say, that's how I did that, you know, like if you can share with us, like some of the kind of big moments that you're like, okay, that's how I, that's how I did it.

matt: 17:08

Jacob. That's like a really good question. wow. Bird's eye view in a way mountaintop view, I guess. I'd wow. I haven't been, I feel almost stumped. I'd say I'm trying to, I think it's more stumped on how I want to answer this question. It's going to sound super simplistic and you know what the truth is. Most things are right. Um, but I started betting on myself. I actually started, um, I started the real estate brokerage. It was my first business that I launched that wasn't like real estate holdings, my first operational business. I started, with two other guys that were also broker level. I thought I needed partners that were more experienced and that were more established. And after funding the company. And after running the company alone, and after getting a third of the proceeds from doing all of that alone, I realized I have a big damn problem. I am doing this alone. And I realized it was as simple as I didn't bet on myself. Lesson number two, start like stop thinking you need more education because the truth, what I actually discovered was if you feel like you've really analyzed the deal to the best of your ability and it's still penciling and it's making sense. You're probably right. You got to still do the damn work. You still, you got to be smarter than the next guy doing it. You got to do the work. And that's, what's so crazy about this. If you just start doing it, you'll probably get there. I really, I think that's mountaintop view says. Start sooner. Stop overthinking it. Start betting on yourself. And I'd say the last thing would be, don't be afraid to change your circle and your circumstances. All I want to do is be around good people that care about me as much as I care about them. It's all I want. And I'll share like hell with all those people. And that's like, the more you say, you got to let go of the people that aren't giving that back to you. I'm telling you, man. You let this stress only be in growing your business and not in your family and trying to curate, keep relationships with people that don't love and respect what you're doing. Like you have to let that shit go. It's toxic. And that's okay because we are ever evolving and it is okay to evolve. It is okay to like. Create new relationships and some won't be as good as old ones. the funniest evolution in my family is my wife. Goes. She was, she's very introverted. she has extrovert moments, but mostly introverted pharmacist, super smart, um, super loving, great host. Um, but when I said, Hey, I got this property are for you. And I was like, I want two minutes to be short term to be long. Like, how about you manage this one instead of me? And she was like, I don't know what if I ruin it? I was like, you won't because you care. I know you won't. You're too smart and you care too much. You're not going to ruin it. And she was like, I don't know. I don't know. Like, babe, I don't, I don't want to, I really don't want to have that responsibility. I was like, I'll tell you what, give it, give it your best for three months. If you suck at it, I won't even be mad at you. I'll just take it back over. And she was like, I don't know. She finally agrees. She does better on that unit than I was doing on the other unit. And I go, how about I give you one more? She said, I don't know if I ruined that one. It might not be the same. I'm like, give it a go. I'll take it back in three months. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll catch you. I'll pick you back up. She kicks ass at that. She kicks ass at everything she does. And now, she's on her way to doing 200, 000 a year in co hosting. So like you can, and that was only two years of work. So she added about a hundred thousand dollars on average per year, too much. She was able to not, but she's also performing. And we have over a thousand reviews on Airbnb, all five star and four, well, 4. 9 average, but a lot of five stars, a hundred percent like response, right? That's what you do. And, and the thing is like, my point here is she was fear driven. She's not, this was out of her element. And now she doesn't even know how she was a pharmacist. She feels like it was still going to pharmacy school. Her mom, she was very Italian. She's like, I can't believe you left this for, for that. And she's like doing twice as well. And I'm happier. So.

jacob: 21:20

this, this has given me so much life. This conversation right now, I'm going to be honest with you. I had just like a really tough week. Corporate America is, is, was really taking it to me this week. You know, just like a really, really rough week at work. And ever since I started getting interested in real estate. What, what, what's going to happen is you're going to be so disenchanted with what's happening at your job. And that's totally happened to me over the past two years. And I work in tech, I have a high salary and by all kinds of standard measures, you know, to my family and to everyone else, I've done it, I'm doing it, you know, but inside, inside, I just, I just feel that I, it's not what I'm supposed to be doing. It's not what I'm supposed to be doing. And this week was just kind of like a very stark reminder of that. And. I don't know, I was just getting really down on myself because I'm still pretty early on in my real estate journey as well. And my HVAC went out on one of my triplexes and. You know, even on the social media stuff, like I I'm, I'm super proud of my wife. She started a social media account She's doing like career coaching type of thing. She's amazing. She's amazing. And she's getting it popping on Instagram fast, fast. One of like two for reels over a hundred thousand views. I'm like, whoo,

matt: 22:32

What a bad ass,

jacob: 22:33

she, she, she's been doing it. She's been doing it for four weeks, four weeks, and didn't even want to do it. Didn't even want to do it. And I'm like getting lapped. I'm getting lapped by her on social media. And so I'm just like, okay, social media is not firing. My triplex is not performing. I'm getting beaten down at work. I'm just like, man, nothing is working right now. But Matt, you're giving me so much life, man. I know, I know I can do this. And it's just, sometimes it takes these moments, takes these reminders. To be like, no, no, no, just like pick myself back up, dust myself back off and get back to work. So thank you, Matt. Just thank, thank you for that.

matt: 23:09

Dude, Jacob. I, I want to, I want to ask you a question too. I'll say something and ask a question. I remember being, and it wasn't that anything was, nothing was terrible. It, when I was working at Quicken Loans, but it was just like, it was the golden handcuffs. Right. And which is what you're describing. And I'm not, can you, no, you can imagine this. You probably damn done this. When you, some people work so hard to climb a ladder, my best, one of my best buds, Chris, he's a, he's really high up in tax. Um, he's probably, he's on his way to making a half million dollars a year. don't think he's happy, you know, and he knows, I think we all know it. cause he's, he's when it's tax season, it's like 80 hour weeks and it is what it is. Right. but I remember that moment when I was walking down the hallway, coming back from lunch. And I would be here for the next. 10 to 15 years making a quarter million a year. And I'm fucking unhappy. I was like, what kind of first world problem BS is this, right? it just hit me like a ton of bricks. You know, I was like, my, no one in my family is doing what I'm doing money wise and I'm unhappy. And I was like, I would great. I would have happily take half, maybe even less. And go do my own thing at this point. And that was the moment like you, you guys just, you guys fast forward, 10 years, and you'd be happy if you've all ranked up a little bit more. Will the money really change your life? Even if it doubles, probably not change, change. Let this be the call that you go. Damn, man. Like, thank God for the cashflow saga. Cause I need to, this was the reminder to change. Right. And my other question to you, cause I think this is relatable and it's good to press into this. Jacob, you said corporate was beating you up, man. Like, can you give us an example?

jacob: 24:52

Yeah. So, we, I'm on the analytics team. I'm what I would kind of refer to as a senior manager on that team. And I had a great group. I was doing a good job, you know, and all of the areas I was managing were the areas that became the company's biggest priorities. Right. And we had a reorganization. And they said, okay, we're going to take a director and we're going to give him your job. And then you're only going to manage half of what you were managing before. So my scope just got cut in half. even though I felt and I was being told I was doing a good job. And so why layer me under this director? Why not give me that shot? Why not just like let me, I've been doing it. He, he has the exact same job that I do. I just now have a smaller job. And so I'm like, okay, well, that's a signal to me that you're not, that you're not seeing the value that I'm bringing here that, you know, I, I know what I'm bringing to the table to this team. And you're telling me right now that I'm, that I'm not that, and that you don't believe in me and that, and they're not betting on me, they're not betting on me. And then that just like puts me in a completely different mind space. And then now small things at work become big things because I'm just the inner monkey in me is pissed off the inner monkey in me is pissed off. And so, yeah, that's, that's just an example. And like, you know, other small stuff, but that's the big one. That was the big one that really put me in a different head space.

matt: 26:06

You know, it's, it's hard. It's hard in these moments. and I've seen that happen to myself. You other people, the politics as you get more into like leadership are so much worse than just being like entry level in a way I hated it, the stuff we had to know and hold back. And like when I had to fire. I need to direct reports at one point and quick. And I remember being told, you're going to go cut everybody's bonuses in half for the rest of the year. I'm like, go give that speech. I'm like, great. You gotta go fire 10 people. Great. Like, I know he wants to see it. Ginger dude fires. A bunch of people. They want me to be the happy leprechaun. Right. But I was like, they're the bad news. Don't hate me. Hate the game. Right. But that director probably doesn't care about her. He never wanted to hurt you. Well, I think you're This is, this is a pivot point that pain can bring gain. Of course. Right. This is that moment where you're like, you took something off my shoulders. I'm going to go put some of that weight elsewhere. Now, I'm going to, I'm going to go even harder in real estate and you're going to actually find gratitude in that. I think because you're, you, you are a very smart being. I think you can like, you can like, you know, gravitate above this. and I think like, just like, and I've been fired before and I used to, I was mad. I was mad as hell when I got fired. Now I'm thankful.

mike: 27:16

yeah, I was gonna say, you know, my story Jacob, but you know, that's, you know, to, you know, to Matt's point, um, you know, it's one of those things I look back on. I think I've told this story before to you, Jacob. I've told it on other podcasts. I've been, I've been guests on, but, um, you know, if I ever run into those guys on the street, you know, I'd, I'd go up and thank them, because it's what, it's what freed me of. I don't know the, whatever I had going on in my life, the mental block, the, uh, just the thought process that I couldn't, I couldn't do without. Right. And it was the, you know, the, uh, proverbial kick in the ass that I needed. cause I'm actually the senior person in the group here. I'm, I'm 45. and didn't get into real estate till I was 38. And, um, you know, just the amount of, You know, steps that have come in the last six years are just, you know, it's, it's unbelievable, you know, what you can pull off. So, but I know you're, you're in a, you're in a tough spot. but you'll, you'll, you'll grind through it. You'll be fine.

jacob: 28:10

Yeah. No, thank you guys. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. We'll transition now. We wow. There's just like, this has just been so, so amazing. This chat. but we'll transition to more of a practical conversation now on a STRs, Matt. So I I'm predominantly a long term rental investor. I have six units and Mike, I think you have one short term, Mike, but mostly long term as well. And. So we're not experts at all. And when I think about it, there's a lot of common objections to short term rentals, You know, you got to furnish it. Like how do you even do that? it's so management intensive, you know, the Airbnb bust, right? So like speaking to like predominantly, you know, people that are in the long term rental space, what's, what's the, kind of the, the bulk case for, for short term rentals right now.

matt: 28:53

whatever you see in the news and social media. I mean, it's, that's, that's the trending topic and when people wanna press a hot button, they just keep sharing it, right? and I think. You know, there's over a hundred thousand cities in the U S and there's probably only a thousand that are detrimental to, to invest in. So as a percentage, it's a nominal, right? So I think a lot of people consistently overthink this. Um, I ha you know, between almost the 70 Airbnbs that we own and manage, I think three are a pain in the ass to give you a sense of our scale that we've experienced and. Only one was city related, the other two are neighbor related. there's so much growth, honestly, believe it or not, short term and midterm rentals are still in the beginning of the marketing curve. Once regulations actually hit and are actually like, it's more policed, it's more viable state regs are going to hit. Think about it. Like, if you know, maybe in your cities, but mostly in Michigan anyway. Whenever there was a class, whenever there was a class action lawsuit against the city for overreach for a rental certification for even long term rentals, it's a hundred percent win rate. So all we need is more Airbnbs to be present and more of us to say, Hey, you can take that boot off my neck right now. And here we are all, you know, stepping up because this is a property rights violation. So rules, all the rules aside, whatever, I think the market is still growing. and on top of that, from the design and furnishing. Just don't do a college dorm room. That's probably the biggest thing. big brother, Matt can say, like, I think, uh, you know, a lot of people think furnishing has to be expensive. Um, and a lot of us that started as investors, especially with low net cashflow investments, long term typically, it's hard to want to spend that money. 15, 000 to furnish one unit. Are you kidding? Some people spend 50, 000 to furnish one unit and those may be more unique stays and that's okay. And, but I think what any long term investor can appreciate is understanding how the cash on cash metric will play out. What's the actual net cashflow. You have a chance to net three to 6, 000 per month, maybe an 8, 000 per month. Maybe you don't care anymore and maybe it is a 40 percent cash on cash, but because it's such a high expenditure up front, you have a problem with that. But if you're good at this, if you can be good at this and you partner with the right people, maybe you have somebody that's really great with capital raising. You have another person that's a great operator. Maybe you have a third party. That's a great communicator. So you have somebody that operates it as a business. The other person helps design and find people locally. The other person handles all the communication and or capital raising, right? There's all these methods. People can get into this with mini, with mitigated risk. And I think that more times than not, as long as you don't have short-term rental ordinances that are anti sub 30 day rentals, you're probably gonna be fine. so that's the other crazy part about this whole thing. Some cities and townships, they just, they just didn't want to have to have the conversation with the city and township. They don't have the capacity to regulate and manage this. And they just don't want to be around the complaints. So as long as there's no complaints. Most people are good about it. So that's, that's my thought. I think a lot of people can still grow massively in this. there's so many ways. You know, you can become, if you're a real estate agent, I know for the Mike and his group, like, if you come great at this, you can make money on that. You can work on the co hosting. You should become great at putting together the deals before you know it. Like this is, this is the, the other mountain view aspect after a while, you're going to have so much opportunity because you've just done a good job. You've done a quality job from start to finish. Where you're not going to be able to capture all the opportunities in front of you, and you're going to have to really make tough decisions. You have to start saying no to really good opportunities because you have to wait for the perfect opportunity. Cause you just don't have any more hours in the day.

mike: 32:36

I mean, you touched on it a little bit, Matt. I mean, are you not concerned with, with regulations coming down the pipeline? I mean, I think that's probably people's most biggest objection when they're looking into this strategy is, you know, like here in Cleveland, for example, it's very unregulated and, you know, they're starting to, you know, cities and stuff are starting to put regulations in place, some are just flat out outlawing it. So, I mean, are you concerned with your guys portfolio about that coming down the road?

matt: 33:02

Not a lick. I got some friends in Ohio that are doing STRs as well, like I said, there's over a hundred thousand cities in the U S. And probably less than 1 percent of them are, are a real problem. And again, most people between the interest rates and the fear and speculation from Airbnb and bust, whatever, like I'm not saying go do it in San Diego and San Fran. I don't think that makes any damn sense. but like, and I'm not, and again, it, the area and city does matter. Like Austin and, uh, Dallas, I think are kind of tough right now. If I'm recalling those rules correctly, trying to go and kiss me Orlando for Disney world. It's super saturated. You got to buy in over a million. and you have to compete with some of the top Airbnbs in the nation. and what you're also gonna learn is like, there's markets that are completely untapped.

jacob: 33:46

one thing that's also unique kind of about your approach to the business is you are an Airbnb expert focused in Michigan, in the Midwest. And I think. You know, obviously we are super bullish on the Midwest might be in Cleveland, me investing out in Cleveland as well, but from an Airbnb perspective, it's a little counterintuitive on the surface. Right. So what's the, what's the bull case for Airbnbs in the Midwest?

matt: 34:09

man, how many people would have loved to have been buying? Millions of dollars of property in San Francisco or Orlando 10 years ago, when the data didn't exist,

jacob: 34:20

Yep.

matt: 34:21

same thing with the Midwest, the data is so barely there, but it's starting to become very here. And I was talking with my buddy, John Bianchi, like he, a super smart guy works for TechVestor. and he's like pretty much the data brainchild for why they have done so well, you know, well done to that company. I think they have like 70 Airbnbs they've set up across the nation. but because they're all working with, to my understanding, accredited investors, they have to be able to prove it on paper, why they think it's going to be a good acquisition. Right. And that's great. Michigan. I was buying properties before data existed. I had to make decisions based on what I knew about an area and what I felt I could produce or muster. Right. And now that data has become available, I've been able to backtrack my acquisition strategy. I was like, I remember doing this. I remember. Thinking it was gonna make about X or hoping it was gonna make whatever. And I looked at like seven parts of property purchases over my 31 in Airbnbs. I was like, this is what I thought it was gonna make. This is what it did. This was about what I thought the designing cost was gonna be and whatever. I tried to like call or go find old receipts. And once I did that, I then compared it to what it's actually making in the last 12 months at the trailing 12. And what I found was, my first. Pretty much a year worth the deal of deals. I was conservative, and we were actually netting 25 percent higher than what I expected to make. And then I started noticing the most recent purchases were actually netting less, which needed immediately. I went, Oh crap. It means it's getting worse. False. What it means is I was finally using the data and I was getting more accurate. And I was like, Hmm, okay. Cause like my properties generally are making more than ever. and like, just to give you an idea of my best, most recent property purchase, that's been up and running for like 10 months, in the summer, made 77, 000 in 60 days. And we bought that for 500. So we're hoping to do 200, 000 on a 500, 000 purchase, which is stupid. yeah, it's going to be a high net property. Um, but that was our best property yet. And even, uh, one of the guys that's really big in it, STR insights. He's a friend of mine, uh, Kenny Bedwell, really smart guy. but I showed it to him. I was like, Kenny, I want to know what you think about this. And he was like, man, I don't know, man. There's no data. And I was like, I was like, I know, I know. But tell me when you look at it, tell me what you think and what you feel. And he goes, it's a beautiful property. I'd want to stay there. I'm like, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Like, if you don't understand that, if you can't even say that, you shouldn't probably be buying it if it's something speculative. It was, it was a expensive property and you didn't feel drawn to it and you can't make it pretty. Don't buy it. Don't. But there's, there's things that are like, I teach something. I teach 2 things in my, in my course, which I'll tell you about. Generally, everybody's pretty much heard of the enemy method. Like, you have a 3 bed, 2 bath and you can bring in a 4 bed, 3 bath. You're going to beat it in a fight to the duel, right? A fight to the death, right? So like you can be battered, you can improve your, but the thing is, what if there are no four bed or three bed, three bath comps in the area, then you're really playing in the negative space. This is my second concept. What does not exist in an area? Oh, what else? They don't have a pool. They don't have a hot tub. They don't have any fun games. Their design is garbage. if you can beat them and like all those categories, there's something special and that's what I knew. Cadillac didn't have that size of house. It didn't have that cool of a vibe, no pools. And I was like, and it's bigger than average. And I was like, and it's, and it's freaking orange. That's an orange house. I was like, I don't know. I think we do it. like, we calculated it out. Like if we do as well as one of the higher end ones, we're still going to be positive. It won't be great, but it'll be positive. And I was like, you know what, shoot it, shoot the J shoot it. Now I was like, let's just, let's get married this sucker. And let's just put it like this. People are happy. People are happy. And I'm really excited about it, but that's unlocked another level of where I'm going, which is going to be. No, I got my one boutique hotel. I'll be honest. I don't love it. Um, I would definitely do it differently. I learned so much from this. This has generally been a loss. That one, it may turn out pretty good. We're really excited. Cause what's funny is the winter is actually the best time. Cause it's, it's a desert based hotel. but More than anything, I want the unique stays. When I build out my new properties. I do want to have things that are really hard to duplicate because I believe that's where the longevity will be. Um, but I think for most people, you don't, your first deal doesn't have to be that, but you need to have a deal that doesn't hurt you and also gives you a chance to prove that you can be good in this business. If you do that with your first short term Airbnb, midterm, whatever, you have a really good shot of duplicating that process to number two and then following the pattern on number three.

jacob: 39:08

Matt. So let's say someone's listening on this call, they're super fired up and they're like, I want to work with Matt. what are all the ways that you can kind of help people if they, what can they expect when they reach out to you?

matt: 39:19

Yeah. so what's, what's funny, I think we were kind of insinuating this earlier to, um, I may be rolling out a partnership program where I'm allow people to partner with us on some deals. Cause we run out of deals, we run out of money to buy the deals we want to buy, but we've been scaling our business so we can buy them. So that's one thing that's. Probably going to be coming out next week. We're trying to make sure we like fine tune it. We've done a lot of partnerships, but we kind of want to figure out how can we make it more accessible and scalable. So we're looking at some things that can give them equity and cashflow. but also give them a chance to get some experience. So they are growing with us, but they're not also like, you know, how like on Um, They get informed, but they're not necessarily in it, but maybe it's like a training those course to becoming a partner and then we can graduate into bigger deals or something. But that's something that's still in the works, But beyond that, the main two things are the coaching. Um, if you're looking for coaching, you can DM me the word legend, that'll give you our free mini course on kind of little rundown of what I am, what I do in there. Um, it's, it's lighthearted. It's not a lot. I'll give you some more concepts, but for folks that are dead serious, pretty much after you watch the first day one mini course, um, you have a chance to apply and say, Hey dude, I just want to be in this, this mastermind. What, what we'll do is we'll get on a call. Um, we'll see if it's a good fit. If it's a good fit, we'll accept you. So that'd be the, probably the number one way now for folks that are already kind of doing a good job with Airbnb, or they're kind of like more. Um, so you bought a lot of properties, you understand how to state investing. I am willing to set up people with Airbnbs in Michigan. either they're just to acquire, if you want us to design co host, manage it, whatever we can do all that too. but my big thing is when I work with new buyers, I just, if I realized you need a lot of handholding, I give, I definitely, you get educated. Don't get me wrong. You can't not work, be around me and I don't teach you something. but if you need a lot, I'm really going to push you toward the coaching. Cause then I can give you all of me every week. You can be in our discord channel where we're answering questions every single day, and I'm giving you a lot of other goodies and first dibs access to deals. I find. So there's a lot of other benefits where, you know, one of my students found a property that there was almost no data in the area. And then we found a way to make it valuable. and it was, I think like four, four 50, and it's not even in Michigan. It's out of, it's out of Michigan, but we found a way to make it 8, 300 a month with which everybody knows if you're netting 8, 300 a month, that's pretty much a hundred grand. And he doesn't make that in a salary right now. And he has a relative that's been wanting to invest with him. And I was like, we get you this property alone. Does that change your life? He was like, dude, I gotta go, I gotta go figure this out right now. So don't, don't sell yourself short. Don't think you started too late because a lot of people still suck at it. And a lot of people are afraid of interest rates. If you're afraid of interest rates and high prices, you're thinking about it wrong. I don't care if it's 12 percent interest. And I promise you, there's a good chance we might hit 10%. I told people we're going to probably hit 8 percent a couple of years ago. And they're like, no, you're crazy. And we're definitely over eight now. So anyway, my point here is. If you are too focused on that, you're missing the whole point, which is cashflow, right? If you can still make four to 10, maybe not that high. Let's let's say two to 5k is probably an average range of what a lot of Airbnbs we find can do. Even with factoring in eight and a half to 9 percent interest rate. Who cares? Who cares? I really think that people need to be getting after it.

jacob: 42:45

I want to highlight another thing too, cause I'm on your, your newsletter. And actually this is how I found you. Cause we both know, we both know, Josh and Josh made a, Josh made an Instagram post. And he's like, if your agent isn't doing this, like, you know, find another one. And, um, he was just taking a snapshot of your map, like of your newsletter, where you break down these deals and you have like a very data driven approach to how you're underwriting them. And you're like, kind of displaying it for everyone on the newsletter. And I was like, wow, this is, This is really good stuff. So I just wanted you to chat about that as well. Like everyone needs to hop on that, on that newsletter for sure.

matt: 43:16

Thank you, man. Yeah. I probably look, it's grown a lot, probably since that video, even, I mean, we probably have like 60 points of data per property that we would look through I was talking to John about that today. And cause like he's, he will only use data that's present. And my big thing is if you don't look like with, uh, with real estate appraisals, right, when you're buying a house, you'll see that there's brackets, where, you know, they're always trying to find a property that fits within a certain bracket or matches a bracket. And from there, they make a subjective idea of what that. They usually use some data function, uh, of how much more this one bedroom or this bathroom adds or, or reduces the value if it's superior or inferior. So I'm using guys, I've reviewed thousands of appraisals. I was on, I was the head of the appraisal management team and like we had to dispute re underwrite, confirm and accept or deny every appraisal that came in through, through there. So like we got really good and really fast at that. So I use a lot of my data driven old underwriting risk analysis. When I approached this and I go, okay, I think it's a fair, it's a fair shot that it does between this and that you can't always prove it because there's a subjectivity to anything. And the other thing is just because it's a four bed, two bath doesn't mean, oh, this is gonna make money. How's the layout is the layout, you know, jacked up. Did they do an addition? Was it a two bed, one bath and they added another two one. And now that just a weird layout, like you can't see that on the data. You have to interpret that. Right. Um, and sometimes they don't know like what other amenities or whatever you might be adding. So, yeah. With my method, no, we're looking at the amenities. We're adding, you know, are we adding bedrooms? Are we adding, Fun features that no one else will have. Are we adding electric car chargers? Can we add a pool?

jacob: 44:56

One last question. Um, that we'll kind of end on here, but what advice do you have for the person that is early on in their financial freedom journey? Maybe they're a W2 worker and they're thinking about doing their first Airbnb deal. Like what, what advice do you have for the person that's kind of sitting in that spot right now?

matt: 45:14

it's one of two things, you have a property. And you just, and like, you're getting, maybe you're, you're actively pursuing it, right? But you're just getting beat out and you, maybe you need a better agent. Maybe you need, um, to be a bit more aggressive in your offering. and maybe it's not an issue of inaction at all. You know, like you're, you're doing great. You're just having some bad luck. That's okay. Now, if it's inaction, maybe it is the first thing where you're just having some bad luck. You need a couple other, like. Tools and the tool belt to like, get you over that edge of the, whatever problem you're experiencing. I, I gotta tell you like coaching changed my life. I think you can change yours. Like when you're in a community of people that are all focused on the same thing, can you, can you imagine like, I know Mike, Mike, I'm bringing this up as an agent here, but like, if you didn't have agents that you could consult with. Regularly, or you didn't see them doing business. You wouldn't be at, you wouldn't be as apt to do it. Right. You'd feel like kind of like you're on an Island. Like you feel alone when you put yourself in a better community and you, it makes it seem like if you're not working on that, you're not making moves. You're screwing up and that's, that's the only place I ever want to be. And that's why my, even like I haven't sacked my friendships, just they evolve differently. That's what happens. And I still have a lot of these great friendships. Some of them have joined me on the journey in real estate. I'm so happy about that. But if you guys don't take those chances to bet on yourself and immerse yourself in something, it's going to be better for you. You won't probably make those moves because for some reason, you know, like this is a common call issue. I go, you said, you've been wanting to do this for two, three years. What's holding you back? And they're like, I'm like, is it money? I'm like, no, I got money. I'm like, okay. Is it finding deals? No, I can find deals. So what is it? I guess, I don't know. I'm like, is it just not pulling the trigger? And they're like, I guess, and I guess is really the response to somebody that doesn't want to admit they've let themselves down. Right. And it's like, we got to say, how much longer am I going to do this? Like when it comes to coaching real estate agents, when they're not making money, the first thing I go is like, I had a couple of agents this last few months come up and go, it's been a tough market. I'm not really closing deals. I get used to, do you have any advice? I'm like, Oh my God, you've been in it seven years. I'm shocked. You're asking me for advice. I'm like, well, let me, I mean, I'm going to start with some basics that I asked all my newbies. Like, what'd you do to build your business today? And they're like, what do you mean? I was like, did you post, did you go see houses? Did you go research things for investors? No, none. I was like, okay. Did you do anything in the last 10 days? No. Oh, okay. So you're wondering why you're not doing business right now? Huh? I was like, and then they go, damn it, Matt. You got me. I'm like, I know that's what I'm here for. That's why I'm your broker, right? Like get back on it. Like today, congratulations. Cause you actually did, you called me. So good job. Now I want you to go research and properties, find some investments or go, go post all your friends and family and say, Hey, you know what I'm doing? I'm out enjoying, an event here in the local area. Like if you were, if you're interested in finding like a house in this area, I got, I found a cool, really good ones. Um, let's do so, you know, just start pitching, talking about things as an investor. I think it's way easier to be an investor agent than anything. If you want to create consistency, like all you got to do is. Post about what you're researching, like as an, as an Airbnb person, the same thing, but that the whole thing gets applied back to the simple idea of if you want to make moves, make the moves you want to be in an Airbnb business. Like, did you buy anything? Cause I promised you setting up your logo. That's not the business. Setting up the LLC. It's kind of a thing, but it's five minutes that you don't get credit for setting up the LLC unless you just started the new credit, but it was in three months of thinking about it. And you just set up your LLC. That's. She had already done that. You have to make the offers, you have to get comfortable with making offers. And if you're not comfortable with making offers, it's probably because you don't have the confidence. If you don't have the confidence, you don't have the underwriting, intellect yet. It's'cause you're not in the right room to teach you that. Right. Well, a lot of us paid 50 to$250,000 to go to college to go get a degree and most of us don't even wanna do anything with it. You're paid 50 to$250,000 to hopefully make a hundred grand. Some of us don't even make that. Some of us aren't making more than that, but we're capped. And then I've spent, I spent over 150, 000 on coaching myself at this point, but some people can spend as little as 15, 000 now, and even maybe five, depending on where you're at. Right. but they can get a, an opportunity to become a seven figure earner. And people are like, I'm not going to do it. I'm like, yeah, that's right. Go back to college for another four years. That sounds like a way better option because you're so happy with what you've done. Stop. Sometimes you just need somebody that'll rattle you out of your senses. And if they can't do it and you can't accept it, then you're not ready either. So hopefully that answers something.

jacob: 49:57

I, I, I feel like I want to run through a brick wall right now. I'm just like, so fired up.

matt: 50:01

You're built for it, man. Do it.

jacob: 50:04

thanks Matt. Matt. So if people are inspired by this episode, just like I am, and they want to reach out to you, they want to follow you. They want to get in touch with you. How can they do that?

matt: 50:15

Go ahead and check out, my Instagram, my broker, Matt, I'm on YouTube too. Same tag. and you can go to, uh, I have a link in bio. If you want to get added to my emails, if you're looking to get added to, or at least look into the mastermind, you can just DM me the word legend or Thanksgiving. and at that point you'll get our free mini course. and you know, after you do the application. We either accept it or reject it, but anybody who gets, gets accepted, does get a free consult call with me where we kind of figure out if it's a good fit. Our goal is to make sure it's a good fit, but our other goal is to make sure we don't bring you into something that's not good for you either, because some people will just let anybody in. And honestly, if I don't think you're ready for it, I'm going to be honest with you, I'm going to tell you about it, what I think you need to work on. And if you present something differently in that moment, if you adapt. Great. Maybe we'll keep that conversation going, but I want people who are ready to win, who are ready to change their lives because just like you guys, man, I had a point where I thought my life was just meant to be crap. Just thought this is where I'm going to be stuck at. And then I finally started making 260, 000 a year walking down the hall quick. And I was like, damn, this is where I'm gonna be stuck at. I'm finally making the money that I thought I wanted to make that would change my life and make me happy. And I'm still freaking unhappy. Why am I unhappy? It's stupid. That's stupid. What Jacob's going through is stupid because he's a smart guy is capable. He can do things and he knows the golden handcuffs are not so worth it anymore. But those are the moments where you go, let it go. Let the money go, go chase something that's going to be enjoyable for you that also can make you great money and maybe even exponentially more than what you're already doing. And that's where the win is. That's the path that we all too often deny ourselves. I was guilty of it too. I'll see you in Instagram.

jacob: 51:58

Awesome. Awesome. Everyone follow Matt at my broker, Matt hop on the email list. Check out the coaching program, do all the things. you definitely, definitely won't regret it. Mike, where can people find

mike: 52:10

Uh, on Instagram at Realtor Michael Magno. You can find me on YouTube, you know, the usual suspects, so.

jacob: 52:17

Awesome. And I am at cashflow saga on all socials and also cashflow saga. com. This has been the financial freedom fighters podcast, man. This was a fire episode. We are signing

mike: 52:28

See ya.